Week 13 GDT: G(eno)iants @ Raiders?

[SilverNBlackFan]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Bit of a bummer. I was high on him as well. Thought he had some Anquan Boldin to his game. He's just to slow a route runner for this level. Another Mike Williams type. May have impact down the road, but looking unlikely. 

I saw alot of early career Michael Floyd to Treadwell's game. I expected more from him, but I also can't be too mad that he's not starting, as the Vikes have arguably the best 1-2 combination in the league with Theilen and Diggs. Jarius Wright is a pretty decent slot also, so Treadwell's path to playing time is even harder.

[NightTrainLane]

25 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

He's a FA. Not sure his market value, but he'd be worth it. Great player. Pair him with Cooper, draft an X and Crab will walk soon. 

I know. That would be a dangerous combo with Cook and a feature back(hoping for Guice).

[MrOaktown_56]

34 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

He's a FA. Not sure his market value, but he'd be worth it. Great player. Pair him with Cooper, draft an X and Crab will walk soon. 

Idk, I'd rather have Crabtree than Landry tbh. I feel like Landry is just given a ton of short catches. I feel like Crabs is more of a threat down the field and in the redzone. I do think we either need to add:

1.Size

2.A vertical threat

3.A shifty guy who can play the slot

[SilverNBlackFan]

1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

Been saying it for awhile now but what we need is to rethink the way our WR core is built. We need a big body #1 WR type for Carr to throw to. Not saying he will actually be the #1 WR with Coop in the fold but he will play the X while Coop is moved around to create mismatches.

Crab is possession WR that we pay like a #1 and doesn't give us the imposing presence and catch radius of a JJ or Evans.

I don't believe we need a big 6'4 type receiver to complete our WR core. Coop, Crab and Seth are all big receivers as it is. We just need a guy who knows how to get open, and most importantly can catch the football. A poor man's Jarvis Landry type guy would be suffice for me. Just catch the ball and be able beat man coverage, and work work the middle of the field.

 

[Chali21]

31 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I don't believe we need a big 6'4 type receiver to complete our WR core. Coop, Crab and Seth are all big receivers as it is. We just need a guy who knows how to get open, and most importantly can catch the football. A poor man's Jarvis Landry type guy would be suffice for me. Just catch the ball and be able beat man coverage, and work work the middle of the field.

 

They do need a bigger body guy to box out WRs, someone who will manhandle smaller DBs especially in the Redzone. Crabtree is the best redone threat the Raiders have and he's on the back end of his career in the NFL. The Raiders need to look ahead.

 

35 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Idk, I'd rather have Crabtree than Landry tbh. I feel like Landry is just given a ton of short catches. I feel like Crabs is more of a threat down the field and in the redzone. I do think we either need to add:

1.Size

2.A vertical threat

3.A shifty guy who can play the slot

Heres my big thing on Landry: HE CATCHES THE BALL.

Drops has plagued this offense more than most of the problems. Carr will at times overthrow or check down but there have been too many times that a pass is thrown to Cooper, Cook or Roberts right on the money and it's dropped. Crabtree has been the most consistent catcher on the team and he's going to be declining soon. Carr needs another sure handed target because none of these other guys can be trusted.

 

Also Cooper is 2 of your three needs only thing he lacks is size.

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I don't believe we need a big 6'4 type receiver to complete our WR core. Coop, Crab and Seth are all big receivers as it is. We just need a guy who knows how to get open, and most importantly can catch the football. A poor man's Jarvis Landry type guy would be suffice for me. Just catch the ball and be able beat man coverage, and work work the middle of the field.

 

 

Our current WR are all 6'0-6'2. All middle in the size range for WRs. Crab has the longest arms of them but still doesn't have the catch radius that really helps a QB like Carr. Even with Coops athletism and hops, Carr has to be very accurate with his throws and we see tons of throws where Carr has to rush it and is out of the WRs range by just a bit. That is where he would help. Plus the obvious redzone threat that none of our guys are without killer routes or pushoffs.

I think we do need that big body because loves Carr's those back shoulder and man coverage sideline throws and that is where a big tall long armed WR would be extremely valuable

Oh...just those 3 things haha. jk

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Idk, I'd rather have Crabtree than Landry tbh. I feel like Landry is just given a ton of short catches. I feel like Crabs is more of a threat down the field and in the redzone. I do think we either need to add:

1.Size

2.A vertical threat

3.A shifty guy who can play the slot

That's just foolishness at this point in their careers. Yes Landry does get a ton of short throws but where are the majority of Carr's passes? SHORT.

Yes, Crab is a better threat in the redzone but that is why we brought in Cook and would bring in a big WR to play in Crabs spot in my scenario but Landry is money on 3rd dowwn, in the middle of the field and after the catch. All areas we need help. Plus with those additions we'd have a mismatch every play on a WR except maybe vs the Jaxs.

[MrOaktown_56]

Just now, NightTrainLane said:

 

Our current WR are all 6'0-6'2. All middle in the size range for WRs. Crab has the longest arms of them but still doesn't have the catch radius that really helps a QB like Carr. Even with Coops athletism and hops, Carr has to be very accurate with his throws and we see tons of throws where Carr has to rush it and is out of the WRs range by just a bit. That is where he would help. Plus the obvious redzone threat that none of our guys are without killer routes or pushoffs.

I think we do need that big body because loves Carr's those back shoulder and man coverage sideline throws and that is where a big tall long armed WR would be extremely valuable

Oh...just those 3 things haha. jk

That's just foolishness at this point in their careers. Yes Landry does get a ton of short throws but where are the majority of Carr's passes? SHORT.

Yes, Crab is a better threat in the redzone but that is why we brought in Cook and would bring in a big WR to play in Crabs spot in my scenario but Landry is money on 3rd dowwn, in the middle of the field and after the catch. All areas we need help. Plus with those additions we'd have a mismatch every play on a WR except maybe vs the Jaxs.

 

I'm with Fahey on this one... If you force feed Crabtree like they've force fed Landry with targets, he'll produce a lot more. Crabtree is one of the best 2s in the league and we're paying him 8.5 a year. Landry will cost at least 10 and probably closer to 12 a year, which is too much for what he's being asked to do.

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Idk, I'd rather have Crabtree than Landry tbh. I feel like Landry is just given a ton of short catches. I feel like Crabs is more of a threat down the field and in the redzone. I do think we either need to add:

1.Size

2.A vertical threat

3.A shifty guy who can play the slot

Why do people think a slot WR has to be "shifty"? I see that a lot. Larry Fitzgerald revitalized his career playing in the slot. He's not shifty. What he is is fearless and a precise route runner.

[MrOaktown_56]

8 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Why do people think a slot WR has to be "shifty"? I see that a lot. Larry Fitzgerald revitalized his career playing in the slot. He's not shifty. What he is is fearless and a precise route runner.

You don't need one. But its a plus if you have a guy who's very quick and can generate separation. Guys like cruz, crowder, stevie johnson in his prime, welker, etc. 

[NightTrainLane]

3 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'm with Fahey on this one... If you force feed Crabtree like they've force fed Landry with targets, he'll produce a lot more. Crabtree is one of the best 2s in the league and we're paying him 8.5 a year. Landry will cost at least 10 and probably closer to 12 a year, which is too much for what he's being asked to do.

That is easy to just say but Crab has shown that he drops a percent of those quick short throws while Landry makes a living over the middle, catching and creating within 7 yards of the LOS. My point was I wanted to remake the position in that mold. If Landry is too expensive then we can find another guy to produce in that area, Crab has never shown those thing as his strength and he is 30yrs old while Landry is 25. There is a reason he would be paid more but like I said there are cheaper options (Kendall Wright Albert Wilson. Landry is just the best for the scenario I laid out.

[Rich7sena]

I doubt the Raiders will be in the market for Landry who will get close to marquee receiver money. I'd like to bring in Paul Richardson, who fits well with what Carr likes at the position (ball skills).

[NightTrainLane]

53 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I doubt the Raiders will be in the market for Landry who will get close to marquee receiver money. I'd like to bring in Paul Richardson, who fits well with what Carr likes at the position (ball skills).

It wasn't a question of what I think they'll do. Just my wish for the position.

What the appeal for Richardson? Really asking cuz you've mentioned that before.

Seem like JAG to me though I haven't watched him in depth. Just a few games vs the niners and in the playoffs. Frankly, looks like a Holton is a stronger, less injury prone version of him.

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

It wasn't a question of what I think they'll do. Just my wish for the position.

What the appeal for Richardson? Really asking cuz you've mentioned that before.

Seem like JAG to me though I haven't watched him in depth. Just a few games vs the niners and in the playoffs. Frankly, looks like a Holton is a stronger, less injury prone version of him.

He’s a skinny, but very athletic player who makes great adjustments at catch point and has great hands. The closest player I could compare him to is a shorter Marvin Jones. I don’t believe Holton will ever develop beyond the player he is: special teams and good for the occasional deep play. With Seth Roberts a possible cut, Richardson would be a marketed upgrade at WR 2/3 with WR 2 upside.

[NightTrainLane]

8 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

He’s a skinny, but very athletic player who makes great adjustments at catch point and has great hands. The closest player I could compare him to is a shorter Marvin Jones. I don’t believe Holton will ever develop beyond the player he is: special teams and good for the occasional deep play. With Seth Roberts a possible cut, Richardson would be a marketed upgrade at WR 2/3 with WR 2 upside.

Yeah...Politely pass.

You may be right about Holton but I think the reason he won't is because he'll always be WR4/5

Richardson was buried as a WR4 til Locket got hurt and he got a chance to really ball for an extended run if I remember correctly. Plus Wilson is a different type of QB than Carr. He allows those burner type guy more opportunities to get downfield plays because of his ability to make throws outside the pocket.

[Rich7sena]

9 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

Yeah...Politely pass.

You may be right about Holton but I think the reason he won't is because he'll always be WR4/5

Richardson was buried as a WR4 til Locket got hurt and he got a chance to really ball for an extended run if I remember correctly. Plus Wilson is a different type of QB than Carr. He allows those burner type guy more opportunities to get downfield plays because of his ability to make throws outside the pocket.

I mean, Richardson is currently the WR 2/3 for the Seahawks with a healthy Lockett and Baldwin. I don’t think Wilson makes Richardson. In a lot of plays this season, Richardson bails out Wilson when he throws those 50/50 (also plays the Raiders receivers aren’t consistently converting). It’s tough to know what kind of player Richardson would be in a more structured offense, but I do see the skills of a good NFL receiver regardless.