MaddHatter Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, El Ramster said: Calling mahomes overrated should be an immediate 2 month ban. And here we have atleast one of the “Mahomies iz da GoAt” fan club leaders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: And here we have atleast one of the “Mahomies iz da GoAt” fan club leaders You want overrated? Look at Dak. Trash qb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Soko said: He’s not saying it’s unfair to compare their first six years. He’s saying it’s unfair to say Patrick Mahomes has already surpassed them in all time rankings. I doubt most people are doing it intentionally, but you’re presenting separate arguments. Is it fair to compare their first X number of years? Yes. Is it fair to talk about, be excited about, and maybe even expect Mahomes to shatter everything we’ve ever thought of as far as QB accomplishments go? Yes. Is it fair to recognize, praise, and be hyped about the greatest start to a career in NFL history? Yes. Is it fair to say and believe that Mahomes might be the most talented, and maybe best player of all time? Yes. Is it fair to say he’s surpassed Joe Montana and Tom Brady in all time QB rankings? Nah, it’s too early. People are conflating the last question with the rest of them. Brady fought tooth and nail to pass Montana, and plenty of people never even fully hopped on board until he won his 7th in Tampa. Take it from a Patriots fan. “Montana was perfect, 4-0>6-2”, “Montana played in a tougher era”, “Brady is a system QB”. The last is particularly hilarious given the 180 the general fans have done on that + Bill was never an offensive coach in the first place, but that’s a separate topic. I wouldn’t call Mahomes overrated, I do think we’re watching the future GOAT in his prime right now, but he hasn’t earned the title yet, as some have granted. Playing the “hey can’t we at least compare the starts of their careers?” as if that’s been the discussion all along, is disingenuous. This! 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, Soko said: There’ll always be detractors. Like I said, I already believe we’re watching the future GOAT, so it’s not like I’m going to argue against it. A different core of players, I would consider Troy Brown, David Patten, Antowain Smith, and then Deion Branch, David Patten, Daniel Graham, and Corey Dillon, and then Rob Gronkowski, Sony Michel, Julian Edelman, and Chris Hogan. 15+ years apart. Like I said, in that respect, they’re physically not comparable, due to age. But that + the consistency to do it for that many years, is almost all that’s separating them. Then again, Mahomes isn’t being anchored down by what many consider to be one of the most overrated head coaches and worst GMs… If Brady retired six or even twelve years into his career, no one is putting him over Montana. Not even Peyton, at that time. The greatness didn’t get accepted until the second half. I expect Mahomes to continue on his track and prove that, but he still needs to actually do it before just pretending it’s happened already. It's premature to have any argument about this kind of thing, and is inherently silly before his career is even close to ending. But to the bold, the only players who were on our offense in 2019 and in 2023 were Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, Nick Allegretti, Blake Bell, and Mecole Hardman. Chris Jones and Derrick Nnadi were it for defense. And then Butker and Winchester if we want to count special teams. The team had a lot of turnover in between the first and second superbowl runs. Mahomes, Jones, and Kelce are really all that stayed through as far as impact players. Not disagreeing with the overall post. Way too early to have any of these discussions. Just wanted to reply to that one point. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, MaddHatter said: So if Mahomes plays another 10 years but never wins another ring, has some good production, maybe even wins another MVP, you're still calling him GOAT? It’s incredibly likely Mahomes wins multiple more rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 20 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said: It’s incredibly likely Mahomes wins multiple more rings. Doesn’t matter if he might or even if he probably will - you can’t crown someone the GOAT based on potential, you do it based on what happened and in this case it hasn’t. Even if he wins 2 more he’s still not caught Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, MaddHatter said: So go back to my other question - if Mahomes played for 10 more seasons (16 years total) and doesn't win another Ring, is he still GOAT / 2nd GOAT to Brady? Yes, he would be #2. Things can change over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yes, he would be #2. Things can change over time. WOW - to say a guy who won 3 SBs in 16 years is greater than Joe Cool Montana who won 4… that’s a huge statement 1 what’s your argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Do we just completely ignore other generations b/c they didn't play in this era? Look at OG - 10 years, 10 Title Games, 7 Titles. Probably the greatest "career" someone could ever have in any sport. You can't say "if Mahomes played back then, he'd have been better" just like I can't say "if OG played today, he'd be just as good" b/c it's purely speculation and imagination without regarding the thousands of factors that set the generations apart. Going forward, as rules change, humans become more talented, seasons get longer, whatever - we start seeing guys throw for 6k and 7k yards in a season, putting up 60-70 TDs a year, are we going to start putting them ahead of guys like Rodgers, Peyton, Montana, etc? I just don't get where it ends - the newer generation will always be "more talented" That's an excellent point. I never thought of that before. The thing is, I see people debating numbers like that and making proclamations about players they never even saw play the game. While there is certainly some validity in the numbers, I just prefer to put more weight on the eye test. Guys like Bo Jackson, for example, had a short career, but he was undoubtedly better than many who have better career numbers. The way I do it is admittedly more of an inexact science, but it's also more fun. At least for me it is. As you go through the years, there are memories that just stay with you. Seeing players like Walter Payton or Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson in action, means more to me than just analyzing the numbers they put up. All three of them were great, but they were all very different, and to me, the numbers just don't do an adequate job of explaining things. What's sad is that most of us never got to see some of the OGs like Jim Brown, Marion Motley, or Gale Sayers. For them, all we have are their career numbers and some highlight reels. As you said, players continue to get better physically, and that's a good thing, because it means the game we love will always get better along with them (if it isn't ruined by too many rules). I guess we will all be enjoying the debates forever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, MaddHatter said: WOW - to say a guy who won 3 SBs in 16 years is greater than Joe Cool Montana who won 4… that’s a huge statement 1 what’s your argument? lol the goal posts keep moving with you. This is all hypothetical. Mahomes would have to seriously regress to like an average QB for the next decade and then some to even entertain not being #1 or 1A with Brady. Do you see that happening realistically? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, MaddHatter said: WOW - to say a guy who won 3 SBs in 16 years is greater than Joe Cool Montana who won 4… that’s a huge statement 1 what’s your argument? I’m a little confused. Are you saying rings are all that matter in QB rankings? What if Mahomes plays 10 more years, doesn’t win another SB… but wins 3 more MVPs? You’re saying it’s as simple as 4 SBs > 3 SBs so Montana is better? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I'm gonna go out on a controversial topic and say the most overrated player in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. He's retired though so it's really Deshaun Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 11 hours ago, Jakuvious said: It's premature to have any argument about this kind of thing, and is inherently silly before his career is even close to ending. But to the bold, the only players who were on our offense in 2019 and in 2023 were Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, Nick Allegretti, Blake Bell, and Mecole Hardman. Chris Jones and Derrick Nnadi were it for defense. And then Butker and Winchester if we want to count special teams. The team had a lot of turnover in between the first and second superbowl runs. Mahomes, Jones, and Kelce are really all that stayed through as far as impact players. Not disagreeing with the overall post. Way too early to have any of these discussions. Just wanted to reply to that one point. Sheesh, hadn’t realized the turnover was that much. Veach really upgraded the roster virtually everywhere, minus WR I guess, but really only because of Hill leaving. And I guess Mitchell Schwartz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 17 hours ago, Dash said: It did take ten years for Brady and the Patriots to win another super bowl after their third. I just wanted to tell you you’re Incredible. Thank you for you and your family’s service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNWguy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I am bias but DK Metcalf is not overrated. See him listed often. He should be getting at least 40 more targets. I think people forget with Carrol’s philosophy, receivers never put up those eye popping numbers. Occasionally, but it’s mostly run and spread the ball around. If Metcalf was in Miami, or Jettas spot, or just any high octane passing offense, he would put up unbelievable numbers. He is the real deal WR1. Anyone with common sense can see that. He is also way better than Deebo. Not sure why that is even a debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.