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[G08]

54 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He was ascending last year too and then started out like **** this season

We can't do this every year

I agree 100%. I'd be a lot more upset if he was 27, 28 years old.

He's 24 and with an offensive coordinator who, if fired, likely will not be an offensive coordinator again any time soon.

 

5 games left, let's see what happens. I'm of the opinion the best thing for this franchise is to build around Fields and, if we can, trade down from our highest pick for a king's ransom and continue to hoard high draft picks for the future.

[G08]

Assuming Eberflus stays and Getsy is launched, if Arthur Smith is fired he's my first call to take over as OC here.

[Sugashane]

6 hours ago, G08 said:

You know that win/loss is not a QB stat man... unless you're one of those who thinks Tyson Bagent is better than Justin Fields, then I can't help you lol

Fields has a better TD%, YPA, more than double the rushing yards, etc.

I can get into coaching as well but that's beside the point.

 

The quickness with which some fans want to jump ship on a 24 year old ascending QB in Bears-land is staggering.

Fields is better, but comparing him to a guy that was an UDFA for a reason isn't the biggest shocker to say that. lol

He has that because he is such a limited passer he HAS to run that much, and he has to throw at a lower volume. He gets to have the benefit of defenses creeping up for the run game and then gets guys like Moore getting a lot of YAC to help him, or more one on one coverage downfield.

And while he is ascending he was in a bad spot to excuse his trash rookie year, then had sub-Tebow numbers for a good chunk of the beginning of last year. He literally could not be much worse than his start was. I think he can be a starter, but is he ever someone who will warrant the megadeal a franchise QB will get? I don't believe that for a second. He is the athletic version of Joe Flacco. He'll win enough with an elite defense but he'll never be the one to carry a team for an extended period of time IMO.

[HuskieBear]

5 hours ago, G08 said:

Assuming Eberflus stays and Getsy is launched, if Arthur Smith is fired he's my first call to take over as OC here.

atlanta has been dissapointing, but they just haven't had a QB - so i think he lasts at least one more year and they try and find him someone that can play  

[G08]

23 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Fields is better, but comparing him to a guy that was an UDFA for a reason isn't the biggest shocker to say that. lol

I mean look at Purdy 🤷‍♂️

23 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

And while he is ascending he was in a bad spot to excuse his trash rookie year, then had sub-Tebow numbers for a good chunk of the beginning of last year. He literally could not be much worse than his start was. I think he can be a starter, but is he ever someone who will warrant the megadeal a franchise QB will get? I don't believe that for a second. He is the athletic version of Joe Flacco. He'll win enough with an elite defense but he'll never be the one to carry a team for an extended period of time IMO.

You lost me at Tebow and Flacco, man.

[beardown3231]

45 minutes ago, G08 said:

I mean look at Purdy 🤷‍♂️

You lost me at Tebow and Flacco, man.

Purdy is one guy. Just because one UDFA is good doesn't mean the rest are even in the same area code as "good"

[Sugashane]

10 minutes ago, G08 said:

I mean look at Purdy 🤷‍♂️

You lost me at Tebow and Flacco, man.

So when it is time to throw $50 mil at Purdy do you do it? Or do you try to keep an elite cast as intact as possible knowing he is the biggest beneficiary of it? You can't keep that level of talent and pay him.

I'll show the numbers to back it up.

***Y/G was Y/A but I switched it and just did the math ***

That's Fields' first 16 starts. That statline looks an awful lot like a certain former Florida Gator...

*** Tebow has 14 starts compared to the first 16 I was posting for Fields.

Fields has 10% better completion percentage, only 2 more yards per game passing, LESS passing TDs, MORE INTs, is 1 point higher in QB Rating, more fumbles, less rushing yards, and 6 less rushing TDs. So when I said he was posting Tebow like numbers, I am 100% correct man. It isn't being snarky or witty, they were both poor QBs through their first season's worth of starts. So when saying Fields has ascended from that, it isn't a big statement.

 

As for Flacco, ignore the win/loss records. Compare Flacco's first 33 starts and compare it to Fields'. I promise you it won't work out in Fields' favor. Flacco was a statue and didn't wow anyone but he absolutely was a better QB than Fields has been so far. At least twice the passing attempts, significantly better QB rating, probably less INTs even with over double the attempts, etc. As a passer I bet Fields' numbers are closer to Tebow's than they are to Flacco's.

[G08]

11 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Purdy is one guy. Just because one UDFA is good doesn't mean the rest are even in the same area code as "good"

Okay. I'm not saying Bagent is good, FYI.

Just testing the waters of "what I'm dealing with here" because you'd be surprised what some Bears fans think about Fields v Bagent.

Edited December 3, 2023 by G08

[G08]

6 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

So when it is time to throw $50 mil at Purdy do you do it? Or do you try to keep an elite cast as intact as possible knowing he is the biggest beneficiary of it? You can't keep that level of talent and pay him.

I'll show the numbers to back it up.

***Y/G was Y/A but I switched it and just did the math ***

That's Fields' first 16 starts. That statline looks an awful lot like a certain former Florida Gator...

*** Tebow has 14 starts compared to the first 16 I was posting for Fields.

Fields has 10% better completion percentage, only 2 more yards per game passing, LESS passing TDs, MORE INTs, is 1 point higher in QB Rating, more fumbles, less rushing yards, and 6 less rushing TDs. So when I said he was posting Tebow like numbers, I am 100% correct man. It isn't being snarky or witty, they were both poor QBs through their first season's worth of starts. So when saying Fields has ascended from that, it isn't a big statement.

 

As for Flacco, ignore the win/loss records. Compare Flacco's first 33 starts and compare it to Fields'. I promise you it won't work out in Fields' favor. Flacco was a statue and didn't wow anyone but he absolutely was a better QB than Fields has been so far. At least twice the passing attempts, significantly better QB rating, probably less INTs even with over double the attempts, etc. As a passer I bet Fields' numbers are closer to Tebow's than they are to Flacco's.

You're comparing 47.4% completion to 57.83%?

Really??

How about Fields' last 5 games if you want to cherry-pick stats:

68.7% 1061 yds 9 TDs 2 INTs 108.5 rating 7.92 YPA 291 rushimg yards at 5.49 ypc

 

If you sincerely think Fields was a similar player to Tebow, I really don't know what to tell you. That's just a mind-numbingly bad take.

Edited December 3, 2023 by G08

[Sugashane]

Just now, G08 said:

You're comparing 47.4% completion to 57.83%?

Really??

 

If you sincerely think Fields was a similar player to Tebow, I really don't know what to tell you. That's just a mind-numbingly bad take.

Ignoring all the other stats to harp on just that one? Ignoring where Tebow was damn near identical or better?

Good call. Those are the blinders needed to make Fields look like a franchise QB.

[G08]

4 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Ignoring all the other stats to harp on just that one? Ignoring where Tebow was damn near identical or better?

Good call. Those are the blinders needed to make Fields look like a franchise QB.

Do you want to look at their first two seasons?

I mean what are we doing here lol

You're looking at an offense Fields is no longer in for 10 of his 16 starts, for starters, it's just awful. Terrible.

Edited December 3, 2023 by G08

[G08]

5 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Those are the blinders needed to make Fields look like a franchise QB.

Take all of 2023 then if you want:

64.4% / 12 TDs / 6 INTs / 7.1 YPA / 92.3 rating / 400 yards rushing / 1 TD / 5.2 YPC

 

Is your focus on what Justin did under Nagy for 10 games and his first year with Getsy for 6 games? Or what he's doing now? Because forget about blinders, what you're doing is intentionally dense bud.

Edited December 3, 2023 by G08

[G08]

@Sugashane next do Peyton Manning's first 16 games compared to Tim Tebow:

 

Tebow had a better QB rating, TD%, INT%, YPA and smoked him in rushing yards!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ.

[Sugashane]

20 minutes ago, G08 said:

Take all of 2023 then if you want:

64.4% / 12 TDs / 6 INTs / 7.1 YPA / 92.3 rating / 400 yards rushing / 1 TD / 5.2 YPC

 

Is your focus on what Justin did under Nagy and half a season with Getsy his first year in the offense? Or what he's doing now? Because forget about blinders, what you're doing is intentionally dense bud.

Ok. Those stats look like either you're banking on the 85 Bears to win or you're a bottom 10ish scoring offense when you see its over 8 starts. Maybe you get a top AP or LT rushing attack to prop it up?

Not sure you should be talking about me being dense if you're struggling to work this out. Tebow had 14 actual starts, so I gave Fields his first 16 since that would be a full season in each of his first two years. Why did I bring that up?

You said Fields was ascending, I said that wasn't saying much since he came from Tebow-like numbers. You practically scoffed at it, I proved I was right.

You pointed out the completion percentage difference and ignored the rest.

22 minutes ago, G08 said:

Do you want to look at their first two seasons?

I mean what are we doing here lol

You're looking at an offense Fields is no longer in for starters, it's just awful. Terrible.

Body of history matters. Just changing offenses doesn't mean it automatically will get better. How many starts do you need to know what if a QB is the franchise? I know you're a super loyal fan, whether it was Cutler, Tru or even McCown or Clausen you were always able to look at the positive. I'm pretty detached from the team it this point. I would LOVE for Fields to be the guy, hell I drafted him real-time just like I did Jenkins and Wright. And I sure as hell wouldn't have hired Eberflus and Getsy but it is what it is.

Would he be better under Johnson or Harbaugh? I'd bet so. But would he replicate Goff's stats or have the offense as a top 10 scoring offense like DET has been the last two years? I'd say no.

 

26 minutes ago, G08 said:

How about Fields' last 5 games if you want to cherry-pick stats:

68.7% 1061 yds 9 TDs 2 INTs 108.5 rating 7.92 YPA 291 rushimg yards at 5.49 ypc

Those stats look solid being propped up by two major outliers.

That's the same as someone trying to pull the 6 game stretch where Tru had 18 passing TDs and 1600+ yards. (numbers are slightly off I'm sure, but the debate was brought up in here).

 

2 minutes ago, G08 said:

@Sugashane next do Peyton Manning's first 16 games compared to Tim Tebow:

 

Tebow had a better QB rating, TD%, INT%, YPA and smoked him in rushing yards!

Jesus Christ.

Pass. Fields is definitely closer to Tebow than Manning. Hell he's closer to Peterman than he will ever be to Manning.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sugashane

[SLCbear]

13 hours ago, Bigbear72 said:

Do you know why this won't happen? No NFL team is going to spend that amount of draft capital to sit a player for several years to learn. Name the last QB that was drafted No. 1 overall and sat behind another QB for several years to learn. I'll wait.

Most likely the QB overlap will just be one year (or maybe only half of a year if JF moved next year at trade deadline) I don't envision Cw sitting for several years.  BUT Lets say the Bears, w Fields make a DEEP playoff run next season, I can THEN see hanging onto JF for one more  season while CW sits for year 2. 

 I only mention having control of JF and Cw for 4 and 7 years respectively  to make the point that WE control the situation and the PLAYERs  will have to fall in line with whatever the ORGANIZATION decides to do. We're not going to use that control just  to keep each guy for as long as we can  ha ha  

 With all of these MOVING parts, its better to Draft CW (BPA and a QB) and take a wait and see approach w Fields 

When was the last time a team had the top pick overall plus an additional top 5 pick while having an ascending QB with JFs potential ?

 We are in an unprecedented situation and have to make the most of the situation !

Putting all of our hopes into a QB that misses games and will have a shortened career makes no sense. Trading this qb away before letting him peak makes NO sense either. Because of the extra pick and Brock Bowers we can afford to wait and see with JF !  AND have CW (again, BPA and plays most important position)

What's more, CW can use a little time  to sit an learn and work out his fumbling and hero-ball issues 😬 

Now if someone steps up and offers us a FRP for Fields prior to the Draft, thats a different situation and a bird (FRP) in hand ! then we avoid ANY  overlap.