Boston Sports Thread

[Apparition]

Hopefully the A's can't agree on a deal in arbitration with Khris Davis. 

[mcmurtry86]

38 minutes ago, Starless said:

Hopefully the A's can't agree on a deal in arbitration with Khris Davis. 

Unfortunately, I doubt the Sox will go for a DH. They're probably committed to Ramirez in that spot next year.

As it is, he's a bad defensive player who, up until this year, isn't a guy who walks a lot. I think he's going to collapse in the next year or two and wash out of the league within 3 years.

As a 1 year guy, or a 2 year deal, I'd be OK with him. I'd certainly take him over Ramirez. But I fear they're going to get a new version of Moreland (mediocre stop gap 1B) and hope for organic growth in the offense. I think Davis gets a bigger deal than his age and flawed skill set deserve.

[1ForTheThumb]

I’d re-sign Moreland on a two year deal, trade JBJ + and sign JD Martinez.

[mcmurtry86]

2 hours ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

I’d re-sign Moreland on a two year deal, trade JBJ + and sign JD Martinez.

Re-sign Moreland? Why? 

Don't think Martinez wants to leave Arizona 

[mcmurtry86]

For those Sox fans who are dreaming of a big FA signing, keep in mind that, including arbitration estimates, the Sox are already over the CBT with an estimated 204M for salaries and benefits. They have 103M tied up in Price, Pedroia, Sandoval, Porcello and Ramirez alone. 

Unless ownership is willing to go over the threshold, or unless they can dump a bad contract, there's not much they can do in the offseason 

[1ForTheThumb]

8 hours ago, mcmurtry86 said:

Re-sign Moreland? Why? 

Don't think Martinez wants to leave Arizona 

Because his swing fits Fenway, plays good defense, and aside from the month or so he played with the broken toe, he hit well. Also not a fan of the other options. Hosmer won't come cheap and I prefer Martinez if they're going to add a power bat.

They're going over the threshold, I'd be willing to bet that. They stayed under this year to "reset" the penalties.

[mcmurtry86]

I really hope they can do better than Moreland who has had an OPS+ over 100 once in the last 5 years.  They'll likely get league average or worse DH production. They can't afford a mediocre at best hitter at 1B. 

The Sox lack of power and offensive consistency killed them this year. The answer to that IMO isn't to stick with aging/declining mediocrities and hope for the best.   They desperately need a big bat in the lineup and 1B seems like the most likely place to put one 

[Hunter2_1]

So, never seen a full baseball game in my life. Who are the Sox's NFL equivalent? If you had to pick one (in terms of ranking, history etc). Thanks  

Trying to get into it. 

[mcmurtry86]

13 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

I think a lot of the personalties on the team are happy to get their pay check and tune out.  Yes that's partially on the manager to manage, but the lockerroom dynamic IMO is just very meh.   Price in particular seems like he is just counting the days until he can get out of Boston and is the ring leader of it all.  

Price was the Sox best player in the playoffs. I think the anti-Price agenda needs to go away. He's not a likable guy but he's a good (ability to be great) pitcher who was one of the few guys to step up in big moments this postseason.

Saying or implying that he tuned out is ridiculous. The Sox highest paid players were either great (Sale, Kimbrell), risky signings (Porcello), injury issues (Pedroia, Price) or bad signings by Cherington (Ramirez, Sandoval, Castillo). 

The underperformance is really directed at the kids who are either streaky (Bradley), hurt (Bogaerts) or maybe just not as good as hoped (Betts)

The team had a ridiculously good record in extra inning games, had a great bullpen and won their division. Saying guys tuned out, don't care, underachieved is totally missing the mark. Did some hitters struggle or regress? Yes. But Vazquez exceeded expectations. Devers stepped in nicely. Benintendi was roughly in line with most expectations. 

The problem IMO was a horrendous bench, lack of a power bat, over reliance on young players progressing with no viable alternatives, league average or worse production from "power" positions, a lack of power due to not replacing Ortiz and a manager who makes awful in game decisions and rode his best players hard even when they were injured or fatiguing 

Dombrowski deserves a lot of blame for the "underachieving" of this division winning team. He wasn't aggressive enough pulling the plug on Holt and Young, has no decent emergency OF depth in the minors, made some bad trades (Shaw for Thornburg was one of the worst Sox deals I can remember in the last 10 years) and put way too much faith in the offense to progress or at least hold steady with 2016's production.

Sadly, I'm expecting more of the same this offseason.

[mcmurtry86]

24 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

So, never seen a full baseball game in my life. Who are the Sox's NFL equivalent? If you had to pick one (in terms of ranking, history etc). Thanks  

Trying to get into it. 

The Sox don't have a good NFL comparison. Maybe Green Bay? Historic team with lots of success in the early years of the league, followed by a long period of no championships and then a more recent revitalization. Not a great comparison but the best I can think of 

[mcmurtry86]

Ramirez is just old/injured/declining. I don't see any indication that he's dogging it. He simply isn't very good anymore or had a bad year.

I'm still not seeing the issue on Price. He was hurt most of the year and it's the coaching/training staffs fault for running him out there when he clearly wasn't right.

I also don't understand the "can't wait to bail" thing. He has a player option on his deal. So if he doesn't play hard or try his best and then bails by declining the option, he will likely get less money than if he exercised the option. So either he doesn't try hard and exercises the option, or he bails after going as hard as possible. Dogging it and then bailing and leaving tens of millions of dollars on the table is a strange accusation for a guy you simultaneously accuse of just collecting a paycheck. If money is his motivator, he won't dog it and bail. He'll suck and stay which is even worse and hopefully not the case.

[mcmurtry86]

Ramirez has always been a dog? I guess it's possible. I'm certainly not going to argue that he's the best effort guy in the world but I didn't see anything this year to suggest he's not just who he always is. 

Price might just be in it for the money but as long as he gives his best effort, I don't care what his motivation in. It's not like teams don't win with mercenary minded guys. Who cares what motivates him if he's pitching well? 

The "loser culture" thing is a really bizarre thing to bring up in light of back to back 1st place finishes. And the fried chicken thing was before the World Series win. So if they have a loser culture going back to 2011 with a manager and players who are long gone, I'm ok with it since they have 3 first place finishes and a World Series win since that "gross" culture was created

The problems with the Sox start and end with Farrell and Dombrowski. Sure, there are some unlikable guys on the roster. There always are. Jon Lester was in the fried chicken club and nobody thought he was a gross loser. Buchholz used to get dumped on all the time for being weak minded but pitched a gem on a badly injured arm in the World Series. 

 

[mcmurtry86]

Would love to hear how this year's team underachieved. They won their division and lost in the playoffs to a clearly superior team.

I'd actually argue that the Sox overachieved relative to their talent level. The bullpen was great despite only having one actually good pitcher. The team was a ridiculous and unsustainable 16-3 in extra innings.

I don't think Ramirez or Porcello going back to pre-2016 levels should have been surprising.  I don't think Betts regressing was surprising. Sandoval being a total turd wasn't a surprise.

You say you're not a Red Sox fan, you openly hate David Price (presumably for some of his comments in the media), you hate the ownership. You think the team is a cesspool of loser culture despite winning a ton of games over the past few years (unfortunately isolated in three seasons out of 5). I think your bias is showing. This is a team that was one of the final 4 American League teams and is worse than the Astros and Indians for sure, and likely worse than the Yankees as well.

The argument that the Sox underachieved really holds no weight with me or anyone who follows the team closely with a non-biased perspective. They had some injury issues which hurt their performance (Bogaerts, Pedroia, Price) but the rest of the guys who "underachieved" were regressing back to what should have been expected or were within a normal deviation of their usual selves. It's really hard to see a good argument that the Sox are better than Cleveland or Houston. I could maybe see one over the Yankees (who were true underachievers) but I'm not sure I'd agree with it

Put another way - give the Sox the same roster and same injuries next year and I bet they win fewer games than they did this year.

[1ForTheThumb]

Tony T has an agenda against Price, similar to his agenda against IT. I can see why Price isn't likable in this case, as a fan.

David Price the player tho? I've seen nothing from him that he's out there just to collect a paycheck. And his teammates love him. Everything you read and here about Price, is that he's one of the best teammates you could have. Read what people had to say about him from his time in Tampa. Listen to Stroman's comments about Prices time in Toronto. Listen to the players who defended him after the Eck saga.

Red Sox fans vs. Price is getting so old. Yes, the guy is a **** to the media. Yes, the guy opens his mouth some times when he should shut it. He was our best post season performer. He was clearly rushed back this season and fought through an injury. His "struggles" here are widely overblown because of the contract he was given.

I'm super excited about 2018 Price. I think he's going to have a big year. He is the least of the Red Sox worries.

[1ForTheThumb]

14 hours ago, mcmurtry86 said:

Ramirez has always been a dog? I guess it's possible. I'm certainly not going to argue that he's the best effort guy in the world but I didn't see anything this year to suggest he's not just who he always is. 

Price might just be in it for the money but as long as he gives his best effort, I don't care what his motivation in. It's not like teams don't win with mercenary minded guys. Who cares what motivates him if he's pitching well? 

The "loser culture" thing is a really bizarre thing to bring up in light of back to back 1st place finishes. And the fried chicken thing was before the World Series win. So if they have a loser culture going back to 2011 with a manager and players who are long gone, I'm ok with it since they have 3 first place finishes and a World Series win since that "gross" culture was created

The problems with the Sox start and end with Farrell and Dombrowski. Sure, there are some unlikable guys on the roster. There always are. Jon Lester was in the fried chicken club and nobody thought he was a gross loser. Buchholz used to get dumped on all the time for being weak minded but pitched a gem on a badly injured arm in the World Series. 

 

Jason Varitek was the captain during the "fried chicken and beer era". Yet, TonyT probably thinks he should be the next Red Sox manager because he'll bring that winning culture back to Boston.