MWil23 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Mel Tucker has not commented on the situation, but he owes Harbaugh a gift basket. He hasn't commented yet not because he wouldn't. It's just nobody wants to get on the phone with him to ask. I’ll be interested to see if they lift the restraining order on releasing those texts. Not allowing those as evidence due to her claiming it hurts her business was a big brained play and frankly, I don’t buy it based on what was released before that. Edited October 28, 2023 by MWil23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 6 hours ago, MWil23 said: And let’s be real here, it’s not just games or conference titles they manipulated. Michigan probably cost UT or Clemson (smirk) a shot at a playoff appearance, not even taking into account that OSU probably gets the 2 seed undefeated or was cost a spot the year before. How did this impact the perception of CJ Stroud’s draft stock before he showed his capabilities vs Georgia? If that game doesn’t happen who knows how far he falls completely unjustifiably. How many other players were victims here? How many other assistant and head coaches were fired because of big losses here? How many millions of dollars did they cost these teams who didn’t make certain bowl games? The list goes on and on. This is the heart of the scandal. Michigan players were going to be overdrafted on "instincts" as well, and the draft is zero sum, for every Michigan guy moving up someone got screwed. There's way, way too much money in this sport for even the appearance of competitive integrity to be impacted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I’ll be interested to see if they lift the restraining order on releasing those texts. Not slowing those as evidence due to her claiming it hurts her business was a big brained play and frankly, I don’t buy it based on what was released before that. Yeah seriously the best counterargument against is that her reputation is already ruined and anyone with half a brain is getting as far away from her as humanly possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Yeah seriously the best counterargument against is that her reputation is already ruined and anyone with half a brain is getting as far away from her as humanly possible. Make no mistake I have no love for Tucker the person here because that’s just gross and weird but I think it’s a wrongful termination legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: This is the heart of the scandal. Michigan players were going to be overdrafted on "instincts" as well, and the draft is zero sum, for every Michigan guy moving up someone got screwed. There's way, way too much money in this sport for even the appearance of competitive integrity to be impacted. Makes you wonder after Venebles leaves why Clemson starts sucking with his reputation for sign stealing and some of those high drafted instincts guys who busted hard like Simmons and Ferrell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 5 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: This is the heart of the scandal. Michigan players were going to be overdrafted on "instincts" as well, and the draft is zero sum, for every Michigan guy moving up someone got screwed. There's way, way too much money in this sport for even the appearance of competitive integrity to be impacted. I don't think this is true. You can't really point to any Wolverines being "over-drafted" in the last few years except Jake Moody. There just aren't any Michigan guys taken in the top of the draft that aren't performing. "The heart of the scandal" has nothing to do with the NFL. That's crazy talk. It's about the competitive integrity of college sports. You literally only cannot do what Michigan did because smaller schools cannot afford to do it. Also, the idea that Michigan can't send scouts to schools that might be in the college playoff is ludicrous as well. They play poorly in bowl games because they're poorly coached by a total goon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 9 hours ago, nagahide13 said: I don't think this is true. You can't really point to any Wolverines being "over-drafted" in the last few years except Jake Moody. There just aren't any Michigan guys taken in the top of the draft that aren't performing. This isn't evidence of them being overdrafted or not. 9 hours ago, nagahide13 said: "The heart of the scandal" has nothing to do with the NFL. That's crazy talk. It's about the competitive integrity of college sports. You literally only cannot do what Michigan did because smaller schools cannot afford to do it. The heart of the scandal is the financial damage that is done with the stakes in college football these days. NFL draft position is an indirect consequence, but there's obviously a ton of other avenues where this is impactful too. 9 hours ago, nagahide13 said: You literally only cannot do what Michigan did because smaller schools cannot afford to do it. That was the reasoning for the rule when it was passed, not necessarily why it remains on the books today. When the rule was passed the idea of recording a coach from the stands discreetly was impossible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_shadows Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 As a Michigan fan it just really sucks knowing that the rest of this season is now irrelevant. Even if they go all the way it's just going to be vacated anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 52 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: This isn't evidence of them being overdrafted or not. The heart of the scandal is the financial damage that is done with the stakes in college football these days. NFL draft position is an indirect consequence, but there's obviously a ton of other avenues where this is impactful too. That was the reasoning for the rule when it was passed, not necessarily why it remains on the books today. When the rule was passed the idea of recording a coach from the stands discreetly was impossible I cannot imagine what "overdrafted" could possibly mean if not "drafted higher than skill/production should account for". Saying that what Michigan has done impacts the NFL is kind of frivolous. It doesn't matter and nobody should care. If CJ Stroud fell 1 spot because of it, that would be on NFL scouts, not Stroud's college opponents. I don't care if they had an employee sneak poison into his pregame meal. There is no element of responsibility between college programs and NFL teams. That isn't how the pipeline works. The reason the rule was passed is the reason the rule exists. We cannot wax philosophical about why it might currently remain on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, rob_shadows said: As a Michigan fan it just really sucks knowing that the rest of this season is now irrelevant. Even if they go all the way it's just going to be vacated anyway. You should have given up when Harbaugh wouldn't shut up about divisive political topics in the national media. Like me. 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: This is the heart of the scandal. Michigan players were going to be overdrafted on "instincts" as well, and the draft is zero sum, for every Michigan guy moving up someone got screwed. There's way, way too much money in this sport for even the appearance of competitive integrity to be impacted. Thats why I was saying if even a shred of this UM stuff turns out to be true--its over for them. I would think. Unless the NCAA doubles down and doesnt want the backlash/negative media so much that they downplay it. There is a massive difference in off the field scandal leading to punishment vs. on field scandal that impacts the money and the game itself. Terrell Pryor signing some autographs for a free tattoo which inevitably led to a 2 year bowl ban and the HC being fired is a lot different than paying employees to attend and videotape opposing teams sidelines and/or potentially hacking into teams practice film. The part Im trying to understand is there is a large contingent of national media members backing UM on this and doing the downplaying already, basically saying that every team does it. Which Im still trying to figure out why. Edited October 29, 2023 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_shadows Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Thats why I was saying if even a shred of this UM stuff turns out to be true--its over for them. I would think. Unless the NCAA doubles down and doesnt want the backlash/negative media so much that they downplay it. There is a massive difference in off the field scandal leading to punishment vs. on field scandal that impacts the money and the game itself. Terrell Pryor signing some autographs for a free tattoo which inevitably led to a 2 year bowl ban and the HC being fired is a lot different than paying employees to attend and videotape opposing teams sidelines and/or potentially hacking into teams practice film. The part Im trying to understand is there is a large contingent of national media members backing UM on this and doing the downplaying already, basically saying that every team does it. Which Im still trying to figure out why. Well that part is probably true, it is something that every team probably does to some level though not to this extent. It's kind of like when teams would get busted for improper benefits to recruits we all knew every program was doing it... But not every program was getting caught. Ultimately that's irrelevant though, Michigan got caught and even as a Michigan fan I fully expect Jim is gone (which I'm actually fine with, I'm on record here stating multiple times in the past that I can't stand him as a human being), we'll be facing a post season ban and vacating multiple seasons worth of wins. I only wish it could get done sooner than it will because it's not fair to other teams for Michigan to get a playoff spot and potentially win it all this season when it's going to be vacated anyway. I can't believe I'm about to say this but maybe with any luck OSU will beat us and avoid that scenario... And that really hurts to say because I loathe OSU but I think they are probably the only team that has any real shot at keeping us out of the playoff. Edited October 29, 2023 by rob_shadows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 hours ago, rob_shadows said: I can't believe I'm about to say this but maybe with any luck OSU will beat us and avoid that scenario... And that really hurts to say because I loathe OSU but I think they are probably the only team that has any real shot at keeping us out of the playoff. Eh, on the road with a first year starter and pretty mediocre offense? I don’t see it. Penn State in Happy Valley will give you an idea of how good UM is. They’ve blown out everyone they’ve played, which is basically nobody so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 7 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Thats why I was saying if even a shred of this UM stuff turns out to be true--its over for them. I would think. Unless the NCAA doubles down and doesnt want the backlash/negative media so much that they downplay it. There is a massive difference in off the field scandal leading to punishment vs. on field scandal that impacts the money and the game itself. Terrell Pryor signing some autographs for a free tattoo which inevitably led to a 2 year bowl ban and the HC being fired is a lot different than paying employees to attend and videotape opposing teams sidelines and/or potentially hacking into teams practice film. The part Im trying to understand is there is a large contingent of national media members backing UM on this and doing the downplaying already, basically saying that every team does it. Which Im still trying to figure out why. Well because every team does do it. Just not to the magnitude Michigan did. Not defending it but it's just true. Michigan deserves what it gets for taking it above what every other team is doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 hours ago, MWil23 said: Eh, on the road with a first year starter and pretty mediocre offense? I don’t see it. Penn State in Happy Valley will give you an idea of how good UM is. They’ve blown out everyone they’ve played, which is basically nobody so far. Even if it's been nobody so far a lot of good teams have struggled. Michigan has not a single bit. So the nobody stance is irrelevant But I think PSU has the best shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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