big_palooka Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 4 hours ago, true2form said: I agree with this. It's not about thinking Wilson is a bust or can't improve. He hasn't been good this year, period. We can justify it with injuries, but it doesn't change the lack of impact. If we were a playoff team and could afford to redshirt a top 10 pick, I have less of a problem with it. This was a team in desperate need of impact players, especially on defense. If Wilson becomes a solid to great player that would be awesome, but is irrelevant to what we needed this year. Counter argument. This is exactly the time to redshirt a top 10 pick. The team is a slight rebuilding phase. They were not going to be that good this season.If Wilson develops the way expected, then his rookie year is moot. What they needed this year was talent for the future, not 2023. That's what Wilson represents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Counter argument. This is exactly the time to redshirt a top 10 pick. The team is a slight rebuilding phase. They were not going to be that good this season.If Wilson develops the way expected, then his rookie year is moot. What they needed this year was talent for the future, not 2023. That's what Wilson represents. In hindsight, it's worked out that way. When we drafted him, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/the-black-hole-plus/mark-davis-champ-kelly-antonio-pierce-dave-ziegler-josh-mcdaniels-aidan-oconnell-bo-hardegree-las-vegas-raiders Quote · While the loss wasn’t only on Hoyer, when the team lacked a spark, sources close to Davis say, “He was fuming about not moving on to the rookie.” Quote · The Raiders weren’t having any fun. Players didn’t want to talk or go out in public, and the owner couldn’t without getting bombarded. · As one player said, “It didn’t bother Josh; he never left the building. I don't hate him, I like Josh, but I don't think he was tone deaf, I think he was clueless.” Quote · Another player told me, “It wasn’t a we hate Josh meeting at all. I don't think anyone hated him. But he got his *** chewed, but so did everyone else. We all shared s—t that we didn’t like about coaches and players. Anyone saying it was all about Josh wasn't in the meeting.” Quote · One player described McDaniels as “Distant, hurt.” Quote · Another Raider told me, “I thought the meeting was great. I felt better, like Josh had heard us, and we all had heard each other, but afterward, I knew it was probably f---ing worse. He was like out of it. Like when you gets hit in the face like he didn’t know what was happening.” Quote · “AP started to talk, and it was like that old church movie when God spoke, Ten Commandments; I mean, I felt like I was a little kid back in the Baptist church. We all were excited and ready to fight, but not each other. It was like, let’s gooooo.” · Another player said, “When Coach (Antonio Pierce) spoke, it wasn’t an act. No notes; he had us, man. He talked about loving each other, the game, and having fun. He supported the coach (McDaniels), and when he got done, that place went crazy. I knew him, but don’t play for him, and I told my teammate, ‘That f---ing man needs to be our coach.’” Quote · Dave Ziegler had differed from McDaniels on many issues. They had not always agreed at all. But McDaniels had the final say. · Ziegler’s job was to execute the decisions that McDaniels made. Quote · When Garoppolo’s play was not good, and he started the second half, everyone who was part of the organization, not named Josh McDaniels, was angry. Quote · One player told me, “In Detroit, when you saw Dan Campbell (Lions Coach) go out on the field when a player was injured, you think Josh would do that? Do you f---ing think Josh McDaniels would go out on the field and check on a player? Not unless his process or system said to.” · He added, “I like Josh, the person, but he was a robot when it came to football, and that s—t doesn’t work. We all saw and heard Dan Cambell (Detroit Lions Head Coach) the whole game, and we were like, what?” Quote · The Lions were having fun; the Raiders weren’t. At that moment, Davis began to go from hot to boiling. Quote · There were two candidates to be the interim coach. WR Coach Edgar Bennett and LB Coach Antonio Pierce. Quote · “When AP finished, we all were like f—k yeah.” This Raider played added, “He talked about how special it is to be a Raider. It is a privilege. But one thing he didn’t talk about was himself.” · Another player said, “He never once asked us to win him the job. Like Rich (Bisaccia), it was about us, the team, and the fans. As soon as that meeting was over, I was like, f—k yea, we are getting him this job.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: · Dave Ziegler had differed from McDaniels on many issues. They had not always agreed at all. But McDaniels had the final say. · Ziegler’s job was to execute the decisions that McDaniels made. Wtf is the point of a GM then? The last two GM’s we’ve had are more like secretary’s to the HC, do the paperwork basically. Mark needs to stop this behavior. GM should have final say on all roster decisions. A coach should only have power over his staff (OC, DC, etc). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: Counter argument. This is exactly the time to redshirt a top 10 pick. The team is a slight rebuilding phase. They were not going to be that good this season.If Wilson develops the way expected, then his rookie year is moot. What they needed this year was talent for the future, not 2023. That's what Wilson represents. This isn’t college tho when his rookie deal expires that’s it. How many years does he have left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 51 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said: Wtf is the point of a GM then? The last two GM’s we’ve had are more like secretary’s to the HC, do the paperwork basically. Mark needs to stop this behavior. GM should have final say on all roster decisions. A coach should only have power over his staff (OC, DC, etc). Until gruden of jmd owns up to that I’m not buying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Until gruden of jmd owns up to that I’m not buying it It has been confirmed on many occasions Gruden's contract had full control, this was said by every big time NFL Analyst there is including Adam S. It is likely true for McDaniels too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 10 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: unless you’ve played football you can’t imagine not knowing how to properly get out of a stance You’re the “if you ever played football” argument. Then completely glossing over he missed the entire offseason as not a reason for his slow start is ironic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) https://www.raidersbeat.com/insider-explains-how-josh-mcdaniels-sabotaged-aidan-oconnells-first-nfl-start/ O’Connell got his first regular season start in week 4 against the Chargers, but the results weren’t quite as magical. He played reasonably well, but was sacked 7 times and threw a costly interception in the fourth quarter that sealed a 24-17 win for the Chargers. At the time, it seemed like the game was just a rookie hiccup, but a Sports Illustrated report this week suggested there was something else working against O’Connell in the game. According to SI’s Hondo Carpenter, Josh McDaniels essentially set up O’Connell for failure with his stubborn game plan against the Chargers. “When Aidan O’Connell started in a loss to the Los Angeles Chargers after Jimmy Garoppolo was injured, seeds of frustration started to germinate when Josh McDaniels did nothing to alter or change ‘His system’ for the talented youngster,” Carpenter reported on Friday. “Internally, McDaniels explained that it was ‘the way to learn’ his complicated offense, but many questioned it,” Hondo continued. “When Jimmy Garoppolo was injured again, and the Raiders went north to Chicago, people began to wonder what McDaniels would do. There was excitement around the rookie, but team wide, people didn’t want to see O’Connell thrown into a no-win situation again.” Edited November 11, 2023 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 14 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/the-black-hole-plus/mark-davis-champ-kelly-antonio-pierce-dave-ziegler-josh-mcdaniels-aidan-oconnell-bo-hardegree-las-vegas-raiders What I got from the article is that if AP gets the job, he's keeping Hardegree as OC. They are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: It has been confirmed on many occasions Gruden's contract had full control, this was said by every big time NFL Analyst there is including Adam S. It is likely true for McDaniels too. This is how Mark closed the deals to get Gruden and JMD the jobs. Offer full control and a lot of money. They were both comfortable in their previous jobs. Giving coaches personnel power is normally not a good idea. Very few are successful at it and it normally leads to roster imbalance. Most coaches want it as they often clash w/GMs but have a short sighted view on building a roster. Then it could be a power struggle like what happened In Tennessee or SF under Harbaugh/Baalke Obvious that DZ reps are leaking these stories to separate from JMD. Considering he was just the paperwork guy for Jmd decisions, probably wasn’t qualified to fully look over football operations. Good chance Kelly was more qualified anyway Edited November 11, 2023 by bucksavage1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 https://x.com/ReignsDsn/status/1721328837299187720?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 15 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: You’re the “if you ever played football” argument. Then completely glossing over he missed the entire offseason as not a reason for his slow start is ironic Do you know what level of football you learn the stance? Especially in Texas where football is a huge deal just keep it real if you need a off-season to relearn how to play football as a nfl rookie that’s a problem. Pierce even admitted he couldn’t even get out of a stance. I’ve never in my life heard any nfl coach say that. Have you? thats not because of injury or lack of practice. It’s because you don’t have the fundamentals that everyone learned in the early stages of playing pop Warner days. Stance goes hand in hand with get off which goes with hand fighting. nvm just agree to disagree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 16 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: It has been confirmed on many occasions Gruden's contract had full control, this was said by every big time NFL Analyst there is including Adam S. It is likely true for McDaniels too. Why won’t gruden or jmd admit to it then? jmd seems like a lil b so I can kinda understand that but if that’s your homie why not be real. Esp if he’s tryna throw you under the bud gruden isn’t scared to talk so I don’t buy it also gruden and jmd will prolly have nfls jobs before mayock and dz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 5:50 PM, BackinBlack said: just a heads up, its entirely possible first quarter all pro happened as teams were giving him single coverage... he beat it, now he is starting to get doubled... as all the top DTs do. PFF, ESPN and Sports ilustrated, never called him the best, you did. He's so elite you have to double him to slow him down. Tyree has not even been close to Carter this year brodie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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