big_palooka Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: Yea due to Double standards , goal post moving and trolling. Like what was said early, I hope the next hire gets the expectations some have placed on AP The expectation should be high for an interim coach. That is why not many are ever hired and why the ones that are, generally fail quickly. For me, there is a super simple way to gauge where AP ranks. Do you think another fan base with a HC opening are coveting Antonio Pierce? Do you think another NFL owner or GM wants to hire Antonio Pierce? Do you think a college program or athletic director want to hire Antonio Pierce? So.... if he's not a guy that is getting much attention anywhere else, then what gives you confidence in him with your team? Answer that question. Being contrarian in a head coaching hire seems like the wrong approach. Especially when the biggest position to fill is your QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) Interim coaches to keep the job since 2000 - **** LeBeau (Bengals): 8-24 record | fired after 2 seasons - Dave McGinnis (Cardinals): 16-32 record | fired after 3 seasons - Mike Tice (Vikings): 32-32 record | fired after 4 seasons - Tom Cable (Raiders): 13-19 record | fired after 2 seasons - Mike Singletary (49ers): 13-18 | fired after 2 seasons - Leslie Frazier (Vikings): 18-29-1 | fired after 3 seasons - Jason Garrett (Cowboys): 80-64 | fired after 9 seasons - Romeo Crennel (Chiefs): 2-14 | fired after 1 season - Mike Mularkey (Titans): 18-14 | fired after 2 seasons - Doug Marone (Jaguars): 22-42 | fired after 4 seasons ----------------------------------------------------------- So in the last two decades there have been 10 interim coaches that had the tag removed and became the full time head coach. 5/10 were fired in 2 seasons or less, 4/10 were fired in 3-4 years, and only 1, Jason Garrett lasted long term. As a collective they kept their jobs for an average of 3.2 seasons and have a 222-279 record. (44%) Those coaches coached a combined 32 seasons and between them had 10 winning seasons, a grand total of 6 playoff wins, and only two finished with a winning record overall. So we have a large sample size of interim head coaches taking over and failing miserably. Edited December 21, 2023 by NYRaider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, big_palooka said: The expectation should be high for an interim coach. That is why not many are ever hired and why the ones that are, generally fail quickly. For me, there is a super simple way to gauge where AP ranks. Do you think another fan base with a HC opening are coveting Antonio Pierce? Do you think another NFL owner or GM wants to hire Antonio Pierce? Do you think a college program or athletic director want to hire Antonio Pierce? So.... if he's not a guy that is getting much attention anywhere else, then what gives you confidence in him with your team? Answer that question. Being contrarian in a head coaching hire seems like the wrong approach. Especially when the biggest position to fill is your QB. We have no clue how the coaching world views Antonio Pierce and whether it has changed since becoming interim coach. Keep in mind, No AP means no Patrick Graham. The incoming coach will bring in their DC. Chance the defense takes a step back in a new scheme Edited December 21, 2023 by bucksavage1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Interim coaches to keep the job since 2000 - **** LeBeau (Bengals): 8-24 record | fired after 2 seasons - Dave McGinnis (Cardinals): 16-32 record | fired after 3 seasons - Mike Tice (Vikings): 32-32 record | fired after 4 seasons - Tom Cable (Raiders): 13-19 record | fired after 2 seasons - Mike Singletary (49ers): 13-18 | fired after 2 seasons - Leslie Frazier (Vikings): 18-29-1 | fired after 3 seasons - Jason Garrett (Cowboys): 80-64 | fired after 9 seasons - Romeo Crennel (Chiefs): 2-14 | fired after 1 season - Mike Mularkey (Titans): 18-14 | fired after 2 seasons - Doug Marone (Jaguars): 22-42 | fired after 4 seasons ----------------------------------------------------------- So in the last two decades there have been 10 interim coaches that had the tag removed and became the full time head coach. 5/10 were fired in 2 seasons or less, 4/10 were fired in 3-4 years, and only 1, Jason Garrett lasted long term. As a collective they kept their jobs for an average of 3.2 seasons and have a 222-279 record. (44%) Those coaches coached a combined 32 seasons and between them had 10 winning seasons, a grand total of 6 playoff wins, and only two finished with a winning record overall. So we have a large sample size of interim head coaches taking over and failing miserably. Past results don’t equal future success. Especially when it comes to the Raiders Art Shell was an interim coach and outside Gruden 1st tenure, was our most successful coach the last 35 years. Dan Campbell was an interim coach with Miami. Many thought he should of been hired as HC Now he’s everyone favorite and potentially coach of the year. As well as cultivated everyone’s favorite candidate Ben Johnson Edited December 21, 2023 by bucksavage1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Do you think another fan base with a HC opening are coveting Antonio Pierce? Do you think another NFL owner or GM wants to hire Antonio Pierce? Do you think a college program or athletic director want to hire Antonio Pierce? For me, none of those things are important. I want to see what he does when he’s in the role and what he proves, that to me is much more telling than if a fan base has name recognition! He’s basically auditioning for the role right now and how he does in the role and under similar pressures to that which he’ll face in a full time role will give us much more insight than some hypothetical like is he on another teams shortlist which we’re unlikely to know anyway. Some good, some bad so far. He’s won games he really ought to win and his and the teams reaction to the Vikings loss was admirable. Couple really flat offence performances count against him though and it’s clear he needs his OC to be on point. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Darbsk said: For me, none of those things are important. I want to see what he does when he’s in the role and what he proves, that to me is much more telling than if a fan base has name recognition! He’s basically auditioning for the role right now and how he does in the role and under similar pressures to that which he’ll face in a full time role will give us much more insight than some hypothetical like is he on another teams shortlist which we’re unlikely to know anyway. Some good, some bad so far. He’s won games he really ought to win and his and the teams reaction to the Vikings loss was admirable. Couple really flat offence performances count against him though and it’s clear he needs his OC to be on point. Agreed. Also regarding the Vikings game, the offense fell flat. However, the defense perhaps had one of the best performances of the season. This doesn’t get brought up as a positive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Interim coaches to keep the job since 2000 - **** LeBeau (Bengals): 8-24 record | fired after 2 seasons - Dave McGinnis (Cardinals): 16-32 record | fired after 3 seasons - Mike Tice (Vikings): 32-32 record | fired after 4 seasons - Tom Cable (Raiders): 13-19 record | fired after 2 seasons - Mike Singletary (49ers): 13-18 | fired after 2 seasons - Leslie Frazier (Vikings): 18-29-1 | fired after 3 seasons - Jason Garrett (Cowboys): 80-64 | fired after 9 seasons - Romeo Crennel (Chiefs): 2-14 | fired after 1 season - Mike Mularkey (Titans): 18-14 | fired after 2 seasons - Doug Marone (Jaguars): 22-42 | fired after 4 seasons ----------------------------------------------------------- So in the last two decades there have been 10 interim coaches that had the tag removed and became the full time head coach. 5/10 were fired in 2 seasons or less, 4/10 were fired in 3-4 years, and only 1, Jason Garrett lasted long term. As a collective they kept their jobs for an average of 3.2 seasons and have a 222-279 record. (44%) Those coaches coached a combined 32 seasons and between them had 10 winning seasons, a grand total of 6 playoff wins, and only two finished with a winning record overall. So we have a large sample size of interim head coaches taking over and failing miserably. Interesting stats, thanks for posting that. However, after doing a bit of research I think it’s a bit misleading as the overall average coaching tenure in the NFL is only 37 months, so a lot of those are pretty average tenures. I think the most damaging thing is there is no real ‘elite’ coach there but of course that doesn’t predict the future. Edited December 21, 2023 by Darbsk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 58 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Past results don’t equal future success. Especially when it comes to the Raiders Art Shell was an interim coach and outside Gruden 1st tenure, was our most successful coach the last 35 years. Dan Campbell was an interim coach with Miami. Many thought he should of been hired as HC Now he’s everyone favorite and potentially coach of the year. As well as cultivated everyone’s favorite candidate Ben Johnson Dan Campbell wasn’t an interim coach for Detroit though, he earned his chance based on his work in New Orleans as an assistant for years. Pierce has 1.5 years as a positional coach in the NFL. Campbell coached for 11 years in the NFL before he got a chance to be a head coach. I could be wrong but I think Campbell is also the only head coach in nfl history that was never a coordinator first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrian Raider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I could be wrong but I think Campbell is also the only head coach in nfl history that was never a coordinator first. Andy Reid also was no coordinator first - QB Coach and assistant HC right before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Dan Campbell wasn’t an interim coach for Detroit though, he earned his chance based on his work in New Orleans as an assistant for years. Pierce has 1.5 years as a positional coach in the NFL. Campbell coached for 11 years in the NFL before he got a chance to be a head coach. I could be wrong but I think Campbell is also the only head coach in nfl history that was never a coordinator first. Zac Taylor wasn’t a coordinator and was hired with the Bengals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Zac Taylor wasn’t a coordinator and was hired with the Bengals He was the Dolphins OC for 12 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 39 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said: Andy Reid also was no coordinator first - QB Coach and assistant HC right before. 7 years of NFL coaching experience before he got hired Zack Taylor had 6 years of NFL coaching experience and was a coordinator for 12 games AP has 1.5 years of coaching experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He was the Dolphins OC for 12 games 5 games. Virtually he was in the same situation as Bo under Dan Campbell Edited December 21, 2023 by bucksavage1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Darbsk said: For me, none of those things are important. I want to see what he does when he’s in the role and what he proves, that to me is much more telling than if a fan base has name recognition! He’s basically auditioning for the role right now and how he does in the role and under similar pressures to that which he’ll face in a full time role will give us much more insight than some hypothetical like is he on another teams shortlist which we’re unlikely to know anyway. Some good, some bad so far. He’s won games he really ought to win and his and the teams reaction to the Vikings loss was admirable. Couple really flat offence performances count against him though and it’s clear he needs his OC to be on point. Other fan bases hated Zach Taylor and Kevin O'Connell as prospects because McVay was clearly calling the shots, but loved Brandon Staley and guys like Matt Nagy. Kliff Kingsbury was supposed to reinvent NFL offense while Mike McDaniel was the intern getting fired for drinking on the job in Cleveland. Supposedly, despite Denver and Indianapolis, Josh McDaniels was a guy teams were just clamoring for left and right. Other fanbase's opinion on one's popularity couldn't mean less to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: 5 games. Virtually he was in the same situation as Bo under Dan Campbell Has there ever been a head coach with as little experience as AP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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