warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, AFF said: Holding onto a 34 year old DE for 1 year doesn’t make sense. It’s a tough choice but a necessary one. Of course they’re going use the cap space…they’re only at $3 mill in cap space right now. Trading away your best run defender who's mentoring a young DL that fell apart without him over some other moves you could make just isn't something I would be up for. Cutting Okorafor saves $8MM. Cutting Robinson saves $10MM. Trading Diontae could save you $10MM. Cutting Peterson saves $6MM. $34MM from 3 guys with 0 future here and 1 that needs a change of scenery. Roll over this years cap and you have $40MM in cap space. That's without any extensions and or restructures applied. Moving on from 3 of those guys were need areas anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, armsteeld said: Media calls Tomlin a players coach. Other NFL coaches rave about his football knowledge/IQ and how much he knows the game. Sharing that knowledge with your players makes them appreciate and respect you more. Being open and honest with them earns their respect. A lot is also your personal style and personality. I don't think you cn take any of that away from Coach Tomlin. However, the results are not what the organization and fan base want. In Pittsburgh, success is measured by Super Bowl Trophies and rings. He had to deal with AB, Bell, Deebo and Ben. That within itself was a monumental task. We (fanbase) want to win and right now this is not a team that can realistically deliver a trophy and rings. We just lost to a rookie making his second start and our frachise QB struggled mightely. The game management and player performance the last two minutes make most us cringe. Bill Belichik is one of the more strategic coaches in the game but many of his former players don't hold the person in high regard but respect the hell out of the coach. A lot is personality. It also comes down to do you want to be respected or feared? Both can only take you so far at each end of their respective spheres. Eventually you need accountability/fear and eventually you need some attaboy's and pats on the back. 2 minutes ago, warfelg said: I've felt for a while that he's one of the only coaches where the public perception is MASSIVELY different from league perception. True. I agree. Right now everyone just cares about results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, warfelg said: Trading away your best run defender who's mentoring a young DL that fell apart without him over some other moves you could make just isn't something I would be up for. Cutting Okorafor saves $8MM. Cutting Robinson saves $10MM. Trading Diontae could save you $10MM. Cutting Peterson saves $6MM. $34MM from 3 guys with 0 future here and 1 that needs a change of scenery. Roll over this years cap and you have $40MM in cap space. That's without any extensions and or restructures applied. Moving on from 3 of those guys were need areas anyways. I’m well aware of the $$$ they save with all those moves…I would get rid of Heyward too. Using that $$16 mill of space on year 1 cap hits for say 2 players who can help you for multiple years going forward would help far more than 1 year of mentorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Steeler Hitman said: Right now everyone just cares about results. This is the core of the issue I believe. What's good results for this team? Some seem from their posting to feel it's making the playoffs and Tomlin is holding them back. Some think it's a .500 team that's going to have a rabbit out a hat win and a head up your patukis loss. Others seem to think the results should be 4-6 win and Tomlin is helping us win unnecessary games. I'm kinda in that last group. I don't think this group is super talented on the field or on the coordinator side. With such a disparity of what people have as results expectations creates such a discrepancy in what people think about the coach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, AFF said: I’m well aware of the $$$ they save with all those moves…I would get rid of Heyward too. Using that $$16 mill of space on year 1 cap hits for say 2 players who can help you for multiple years going forward would help far more than 1 year of mentorship. So you want them to have $56MM in cap space? I just feel like that's making a move to make one. I guess agree to disagree there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, warfelg said: So you want them to have $56MM in cap space? I just feel like that's making a move to make one. I guess agree to disagree there. Yes because I’m trying to build up the rest of the team around(probably) a new high QB draft pick in 2025. Like I said that $16 mill is enough for the year 1 cap hits of 2 solid free agents that can help the team for multiple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, AFF said: Yes because I’m trying to build up the rest of the team around(probably) a new high QB draft pick in 2025. Like I said that $16 mill is enough for the year 1 cap hits of 2 solid free agents that can help the team for multiple years. Like I said agree to disagree. I think you lose far more on and off the field with that than you gain. I just let it go to the end of the season and take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, armsteeld said: Media calls Tomlin a players coach. Other NFL coaches rave about his football knowledge/IQ and how much he knows the game. Sharing that knowledge with your players makes them appreciate and respect you more. Being open and honest with them earns their respect. Bill Belichik is one of the more strategic coaches in the game but many of his former players don't hold the person in high regard but respect the hell out of the coach. Obviously Im not in the locker room or in team meetings, but Ive never particularly seen anything that showcases his supposed vast knowledge of the game. You think someone with all tgat supposed knowledge would learn from past mistakes and adjust better to certain things, but Ive never seen that. His teams constantly have the same issues, regardless of talent or personnel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, warfelg said: $18.7 mil in dead cap if you trade TJ. A little over $11mil saved. I don't want them to trade TJ, but if this team is going to be a non contender, it would be nice if TJ got a SB somewhere. This regime though, not happening unless something drastic occurs. Maybe KP's ribs are more injured than we though and more of a reason for the issues on offence. Thats not a reason for some of the other play calls though, such as the last drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, warfelg said: Like I said agree to disagree. I think you lose far more on and off the field with that than you gain. I just let it go to the end of the season and take it from there. What do you really "gain" by keeping him? This team is going nowhere. You trap a good player in a bad situation and watch his HOF career go to waste in a place he is one of the very few bright spots. I dont want TJ to leave, but this team is probably heading towards a full on rebuild, and an aging star with 3 or 4 more top years left isnt going to be particularly happy in that situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, 43M said: What do you really "gain" by keeping him? This team is going nowhere. You trap a good player in a bad situation and watch his HOF career go to waste in a place he is one of the very few bright spots. I dont want TJ to leave, but this team is probably heading towards a full on rebuild, and an aging star with 3 or 4 more top years left isnt going to be particularly happy in that situation. This is more in regards to Heyward. But what you gain with keeping him is the ability to keep your turnaround quicker. I know we disagree on the OL position but you need a LT (or C for you), Edge, CB, and QB to compete in the NFL today. We look like we have 3 of those with 2 developing. Trade Watt and now you need 2 of them and don't know what you have in the other 2 developing. Frankly, I rather give up Highsmith in a trade. And frankly he would likely get something better for you because there's plenty of competitive teams that would kill for an every down guy like him. Send him to KC, Philly, Detroit, or Buffalo for their first and 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 53 minutes ago, warfelg said: To me it's more an issue of a couple of things other than not taking him. Like the utilization is weird. It seems to be Canada "features" role players looking at "star" players as distractions. Thats kinda my point, though. Canada has never used TEs particularly well, so drafting another one high never made much sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) I think this team could be a real threat soon with another draft/offseason Fa additions and a coaching cleanse. Getting a NFL caliber OC and guys like Dan Moore and Mason Cole off this roster could do a lot for the offense... but the QB situation looms large..ugh Edited November 20, 2023 by August4th 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, 43M said: Thats kinda my point, though. Canada has never used TEs particularly well, so drafting another one high never made much sense to me. Oh yea, there's a whole bunch of issues with that draft class. Najee was a bad fit, I pounded the table that if you need to take a RB take Etienne because he's one cut, but oh well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 minute ago, warfelg said: This is more in regards to Heyward. But what you gain with keeping him is the ability to keep your turnaround quicker. I know we disagree on the OL position but you need a LT (or C for you), I wouldn't say we "disagree" on OL. I fully recognize blindside tackle is extremely important. I just began to realize how crucial a quality center is. Every year since Jeff Hartings left that didn't include Pouncey has showcased that for us specifically. Sean Mahan, Justin Hartwig, Kendrick Green, Mason Cole....ugh.... 1 minute ago, warfelg said: Edge, CB, and QB to compete in the NFL today. We look like we have 3 of those with 2 developing. Trade Watt and now you need 2 of them and don't know what you have in the other 2 developing. I think you are kind of oversimplifying what is needed while downplaying how much we actually need to really compete. I dont think we are quite as close as you seem to believe, but its just our personal outlooks, I suppose. 1 minute ago, warfelg said: Frankly, I rather give up Highsmith in a trade. And frankly he would likely get something better for you because there's plenty of competitive teams that would kill for an every down guy like him. Send him to KC, Philly, Detroit, or Buffalo for their first and 4th. You seem to be dismissing or at least severely downplaying the age factor when thats by far the biggest issue in all of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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