5 UP 5 DOWN Week 12 @ Bengals

[warfelg]

https://x.com/donched54/status/1729240124594991310?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

 

https://x.com/cartercritiques/status/1729257007452950854?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

[3rivers]

25 minutes ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/donched54/status/1729240124594991310?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

 

https://x.com/cartercritiques/status/1729257007452950854?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

wrong

it's a TD,

why not ask dionte if we should challenge, have him (or other WR's that made TD catch) signal to tomlin to challenge

TD's are worth a wasted challenge

 

tomlin has challenged many other plays over the years that weren't possible TD's vs divisional opponent . Can't win them all either, thats life. 

Still, I care what Gene says because he knows what  a 'catch' is and is the ref for the fans FWIW .  Plus it's worth the chance since it's a TD. Not just a meaningless catch or when we have the game out of hand. 

anyways, enough of this, the catch is something the league likes to have control over and always will. 

TD to be catches should be automatically reviewed - problem solved despite fans and media still not knowing what a catch is. Simplifying the rule isn't what the NFL wants, a few less commercial breaks and that costs them and the mighty dollar is the NFL as well. 

Now, if we are going to talk about dionte and his blocking/fumble recovery and boswell/gum chewers kickoff fail, thats another thread 

[Dcash4]

I am sure this will come off as hate, but it's not meant to...but I have Tomlin as a down for just the last week in general. It's not even that I don't like him, but I just continue to be disappointed by him in certain areas. As the CEO styled head coach, I just think he needs to have certain things on lock. But he has been very "Jesus take the wheel" and I don't feel like he is actually driving the car. 

1) The Matt Canada thing: Maybe my mind changes on this if we play very blah on Sunday and moving forward, but good lord that was night and day difference. Vibes, effect, visually -- everything looked better. From structure of the plays, to areas of attack, to a QB who didn't look like there was piss running down his leg. How did we maintain Canada for so damn long? Just so frustrating to see that a capable, NFL offense was underneath the surface. This offense has never had to be good, they just needed to be competent. Felt clear on Sunday who the incompetent one was (well, outside of DJ). 

2) Report about Canada not allowing other opinions: I mean, just WHAT?! I would get this after year one and rolling into a new season without Ben. Give the dude you hired the freedom to operate. But, I mean, this offense has needed way more over the last year and a half. How were they not making sure he was provided help and DEMAND that he accept it? Tomlin talks all the time about "division of labor". Apparently, just empty words. It's just that Jesus take the wheel moment. What were we doing to try to HELP Matt Canada?

I have nothing to base this off of other than my own feelings from taking in what he says and what he does, but Tomlin just feels like he thinks things will sort themselves out because they have to. Matt Canada was going to get better, because he had to. He didn't. What did we do to change it? Seems like not much. Just frustrating that it seems like the head of team doesn't have the awareness or the fortitude to see the problem and find an answer. 

3) The 4th and 2 on the first possession: Jake Browning. We don't go for it on the Bengals 43 against Jake Browning. I understand this is on the lower end of pain points, but it just leads into the way Tomlin allows games to unfold. We don't attempt to control our own destiny, we wait for destiny to pick and hope she likes our efforts. This was a 4 play drive before the punt: 24 yards, 3 yards, -5 on an idiot play, and 10 yards. This is a team that NEEDED a boost. This is a team that NEEDS every opportunity at points. We were going against a backup QB without a top 2 receiver. 

Imagine standing next to TJ Watt, looking at Jake Browning, and telling him TJ "sorry, I don't trust you". These are the decisions that when you had Ben Roethlisberger you got away with it. We would just get them the next possession, but not this team. Not on a team that averages 17 points a game over the last two years. 

What was our reward for pinning them deep? Nothing. It netted 23 yards because we gave up control and allowed things to happen. A bad play from our best STer and they are at the 20. As a team that plays sooo close to the margins, we lack any attempt to control the outcomes or increase the margins. 

4) The non-challenge on the DJ play: Egregiously bad. I get the issue in an away stadium. I understand the nuance for overturning it to a catch. But do we not know who we are? We struggle to score points, and there was 7 there to have that we just decided wasn't worth the attempt. 

Fun fact: only 2 of our 11 games have we exhausted our first half timeouts (they don't carry over and you cannot return them for cash). Two games we kept all 3! Three games we used only 1, one of which was THIS GAME. 

Understand who you are. We don't score a lot of points. Check. We do not use our timeouts aggressively. Check. We are NOT aggressive. Check. 

SO WHY THE %^#*@^ WOULDN'T YOU THROW THE FLAG!?

Understand that the next play call on third down was a run that was going to be stuffed. Tomlin was happy to trade 7 for 3 for sake of a timeout he doesn't have a plan for using. Football Karma is real, and the gods were angry at Tomlin in this games first two possessions. 

Like I said, egregiously bad. 

5) The entire DJ situation: I was waiting until after the press conference, but that was a nothing-burger. Goes with the theme though, Tomlin seems to be doing nothing instead of, well, anything for a repeat offender. Drop the football? Keep playing. No hustle? Keep playing. Involved in fights? keep playing. Acting better than the rest of your team? Well, you go ahead and talk to them (but, I am going to keep you playing). 

Diontae is a tremendously talented player with coconut for a head. And my bigger issue is that we HAVE SEEN A BENCHING work before. Remember when they benched him in that Bills game years ago? Dude went the rest of the year AND into week 13 of the next year without a drop. 

I don't think asking him to stay after class and write "I won't be bad" on the chalkboard 100 times is enough. Maybe Tomlin is just waiting to see what his response is to the team and public before drops down his ruling...but he has to do SOMETHING about this. Nothing isn't (and hasn't) cut it with this player. It's only gotten worse. 

This wall of text was brought to you by Dcash4's therapy session that was brewing after the Canada stuff, but I just want to feel like Tomlin has control over the situations, and I am continually left feeling like he doesn't. Not over the coaching staff, not over the strategy, not over in game decisions, and now not over the players. 

I used to firmly believe that Tomlin kept things on lock with the players in the building to the point that when things happened you would go "damn Tomlin kept this all in house!". Now I am questioning why so much damn stuff happens IN the house to begin with. 

[warfelg]

https://x.com/alex_kozora/status/1729614093135286562?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

Defense on the field 27 snaps less than average. 

[3rivers]

 

[warfelg]

I've been liking Chase in general and this is a good one in the first Pickett breakdown.

[3rivers]

we see the immediate progression of the offence now that canada is gone.

Do we see a continuous progression each week a bit at a time?  This is a good  clip but I think KP couldn't see /have a good path to throw the 6:30 mark pass.  By the time he moves the coverage would close in.  Conservative can be good as long as we move the chains and don't turn it over. 

Main part is the use of the middle  of the field, for a change. 

 

[3rivers]

 

[jebrick]

12 hours ago, 3rivers said:

we see the immediate progression of the offence now that canada is gone.

Do we see a continuous progression each week a bit at a time?  This is a good  clip but I think KP couldn't see /have a good path to throw the 6:30 mark pass.  By the time he moves the coverage would close in.  Conservative can be good as long as we move the chains and don't turn it over. 

Main part is the use of the middle  of the field, for a change. 

 

The change we saw was using their best players in good situations.  We have to see some new wrinkles in the offense every week.

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

The change we saw was using their best players in good situations.  We have to see some new wrinkles in the offense every week.

slowly every week a bit more new and a bit more variation from the old. Thats not going to get tomlin to show all the cards but some of this has to be done for reps and to see what the team needs to work on. 

The offence can only get better, the question is  - how much ?

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

slowly every week a bit more new and a bit more variation from the old. Thats not going to get tomlin to show all the cards but some of this has to be done for reps and to see what the team needs to work on. 

The offence can only get better, the question is  - how much ?

You are not changing the playbook in a week or even 3.  All they can do is add wrinkles and maybe a play or 2  every week.

[warfelg]

https://x.com/FarabaughFB/status/1730276758102933830?s=20

Jesus.  Puts the "we're not executing" to a whole new level.

[bigben07MVP]

On 11/28/2023 at 4:41 PM, Dcash4 said:

I am sure this will come off as hate, but it's not meant to...but I have Tomlin as a down for just the last week in general. It's not even that I don't like him, but I just continue to be disappointed by him in certain areas. As the CEO styled head coach, I just think he needs to have certain things on lock. But he has been very "Jesus take the wheel" and I don't feel like he is actually driving the car. 

1) The Matt Canada thing: Maybe my mind changes on this if we play very blah on Sunday and moving forward, but good lord that was night and day difference. Vibes, effect, visually -- everything looked better. From structure of the plays, to areas of attack, to a QB who didn't look like there was piss running down his leg. How did we maintain Canada for so damn long? Just so frustrating to see that a capable, NFL offense was underneath the surface. This offense has never had to be good, they just needed to be competent. Felt clear on Sunday who the incompetent one was (well, outside of DJ). 

2) Report about Canada not allowing other opinions: I mean, just WHAT?! I would get this after year one and rolling into a new season without Ben. Give the dude you hired the freedom to operate. But, I mean, this offense has needed way more over the last year and a half. How were they not making sure he was provided help and DEMAND that he accept it? Tomlin talks all the time about "division of labor". Apparently, just empty words. It's just that Jesus take the wheel moment. What were we doing to try to HELP Matt Canada?

I have nothing to base this off of other than my own feelings from taking in what he says and what he does, but Tomlin just feels like he thinks things will sort themselves out because they have to. Matt Canada was going to get better, because he had to. He didn't. What did we do to change it? Seems like not much. Just frustrating that it seems like the head of team doesn't have the awareness or the fortitude to see the problem and find an answer. 

3) The 4th and 2 on the first possession: Jake Browning. We don't go for it on the Bengals 43 against Jake Browning. I understand this is on the lower end of pain points, but it just leads into the way Tomlin allows games to unfold. We don't attempt to control our own destiny, we wait for destiny to pick and hope she likes our efforts. This was a 4 play drive before the punt: 24 yards, 3 yards, -5 on an idiot play, and 10 yards. This is a team that NEEDED a boost. This is a team that NEEDS every opportunity at points. We were going against a backup QB without a top 2 receiver. 

Imagine standing next to TJ Watt, looking at Jake Browning, and telling him TJ "sorry, I don't trust you". These are the decisions that when you had Ben Roethlisberger you got away with it. We would just get them the next possession, but not this team. Not on a team that averages 17 points a game over the last two years. 

What was our reward for pinning them deep? Nothing. It netted 23 yards because we gave up control and allowed things to happen. A bad play from our best STer and they are at the 20. As a team that plays sooo close to the margins, we lack any attempt to control the outcomes or increase the margins. 

4) The non-challenge on the DJ play: Egregiously bad. I get the issue in an away stadium. I understand the nuance for overturning it to a catch. But do we not know who we are? We struggle to score points, and there was 7 there to have that we just decided wasn't worth the attempt. 

Fun fact: only 2 of our 11 games have we exhausted our first half timeouts (they don't carry over and you cannot return them for cash). Two games we kept all 3! Three games we used only 1, one of which was THIS GAME. 

Understand who you are. We don't score a lot of points. Check. We do not use our timeouts aggressively. Check. We are NOT aggressive. Check. 

SO WHY THE %^#*@^ WOULDN'T YOU THROW THE FLAG!?

Understand that the next play call on third down was a run that was going to be stuffed. Tomlin was happy to trade 7 for 3 for sake of a timeout he doesn't have a plan for using. Football Karma is real, and the gods were angry at Tomlin in this games first two possessions. 

Like I said, egregiously bad. 

5) The entire DJ situation: I was waiting until after the press conference, but that was a nothing-burger. Goes with the theme though, Tomlin seems to be doing nothing instead of, well, anything for a repeat offender. Drop the football? Keep playing. No hustle? Keep playing. Involved in fights? keep playing. Acting better than the rest of your team? Well, you go ahead and talk to them (but, I am going to keep you playing). 

Diontae is a tremendously talented player with coconut for a head. And my bigger issue is that we HAVE SEEN A BENCHING work before. Remember when they benched him in that Bills game years ago? Dude went the rest of the year AND into week 13 of the next year without a drop. 

I don't think asking him to stay after class and write "I won't be bad" on the chalkboard 100 times is enough. Maybe Tomlin is just waiting to see what his response is to the team and public before drops down his ruling...but he has to do SOMETHING about this. Nothing isn't (and hasn't) cut it with this player. It's only gotten worse. 

This wall of text was brought to you by Dcash4's therapy session that was brewing after the Canada stuff, but I just want to feel like Tomlin has control over the situations, and I am continually left feeling like he doesn't. Not over the coaching staff, not over the strategy, not over in game decisions, and now not over the players. 

I used to firmly believe that Tomlin kept things on lock with the players in the building to the point that when things happened you would go "damn Tomlin kept this all in house!". Now I am questioning why so much damn stuff happens IN the house to begin with. 

Really hard to disagree with any of this. 

[3rivers]

51 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

The non-challenge on the DJ play: Egregiously bad.

as much as we will be a critic of how this play went, the PROPER way to have this corrected is the NFL will review all TD's. Instead they do this inside 2 minutes. How does this make any sense? No logic there at all NFL, one more example of their  rules gone bad.  Maybe they need another bottlegate type of response to make the changes, because until then it seems everyone is accepting such rules

54 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Now I am questioning why so much damn stuff happens IN the house to begin with. 

probably to keep the media sensationalist quiet. one less distraction.  It's not good that these problems occur though, especially from a so called WR1 /Leader type player, but many will say WR's are divas.  I expect dionte to rebound, all will be good. 

 

56 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

The Matt Canada thing

this is like a new chapter. The offence will only get better overall, especially the passing game.  Canada might have been a nice person and liked by the players, but not a good OC.  We can once again actually look forward to watching this team's offence rather than tolerate it at best as opposed to  looking  forward to filling these pages with ulcers and dry chunks

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

probably to keep the media sensationalist quiet. one less distraction.

This stuff happens in all locker rooms. Just a matter of how it’s handled.