Week 14: VIKINGS (6-6) at Raiders (5-7)

[swede700]

14 minutes ago, Sir Fobos said:

Edited to add: The WRs haven't done Dobbs any favors lately. I can't remember a time when receivers killed so many drives with dropped passes.

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs could do with an offseason to build a rapport with the WRs. But that experiment is likely over.

While the receivers probably shouldn't drop a lot of those passes, I personally feel that Dobbs has never done them any favors with where he's placed the balls.  He's not anywhere near as accurate as Kirk has been. 

[swede700]

5 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

So, where will Davante Adams be playing next year?

I think his thoughts can be encapsulated by this...

 

[vike daddy]

25 minutes ago, Sir Fobos said:

Dobbs walked into a new, complex offense that relies heavily on timing. However cerebral Dobbs is, intelligence alone is not a substitute for practice and repetition. It took Cousins more than a season to become comfortable in KOC's system, and Cousins has a superior arm to run that system. Due to the rapid way the situation unfolded in MN, Dobbs has struggled with the timing and has largely been limited to buying time with his feet and improvising, on top of his personal limitations. Once defenses zeroed in on containing him and forcing him to quickly hit WRs from the pocket, he ceased being productive and the offense faltered to its current state. If Dobbs could better sync with the WRs (which takes time to develop), this trend would reverse. I think that's what KOC anticipated, at least incrementally, and is probably why he was willing to keep Dobbs on the field so long. Dobbs' intelligence and athleticism might have justified the risk.

Edited to add: The WRs haven't done Dobbs any favors lately. I can't remember a time when receivers killed so many drives with dropped passes.

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs could do with an offseason to build a rapport with the WRs. But that experiment is likely over.

superb analysis.

 

guys, your posts have been really on point lately, most all of you!

the quality of this forum is returning...

[Dolmonite26]

15 minutes ago, Sir Fobos said:

Dobbs walked into a new, complex offense that relies heavily on timing. However cerebral Dobbs is, intelligence alone is not a substitute for practice and repetition. It took Cousins more than a season to become comfortable in KOC's system, and Cousins has a superior arm to run that system. Due to the rapid way the situation unfolded in MN, Dobbs has struggled with the timing and has largely been limited to buying time with his feet and improvising, on top of his personal limitations. Once defenses zeroed in on containing him and forcing him to quickly hit WRs from the pocket, he ceased being productive and the offense faltered to its current state. If Dobbs could better sync with the WRs (which takes time to develop), this trend would reverse. I think that's what KOC anticipated, at least incrementally, and is probably why he was willing to keep Dobbs on the field so long. Dobbs' intelligence and athleticism might have justified the risk.

Edited to add: The WRs haven't done Dobbs any favors lately. I can't remember a time when receivers killed so many drives with dropped passes.

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs could do with an offseason to build a rapport with the WRs. But that experiment is likely over.

This is closely aligned with my own analysis.

Dobb's ace was his scrambling, but he has a really bad habit of only really doing that by going backwards and then outside of tackle. I was encouraged by him not doing that against Oakland, but apparently once you take that away from him with good contain he loses that scrambling element entirely.

And he's still indecisive and slow to read the field.

I agree exactly that KOC anticipated incremental improvement. And tbh there's an argument we got that- steadier in the pocket, more under control when facing pressure (i.e. not flinging the ball at the last minute to avoid a sack), and there were good throws and decisions (that were dropped a decent amount of the time)- but there was also either stagnation or negative regression with trusting his read of the field and getting the ball out in rhythm.

I'm still finding myself resisting the idea that there is any obvious decision here. I know everyone is saying you have to go to Mullens, and that seems like the right idea. But I also understand what KOC is trying to do here, he sees a higher ceiling for the offense with Dobbs and I think he's right. 

I just don't know how long you commit to that idea, and the ceiling probably isn't as high as he hopes anyway.  

[Dolmonite26]

20 minutes ago, swede700 said:

While the receivers probably shouldn't drop a lot of those passes, I personally feel that Dobbs has never done them any favors with where he's placed the balls.  He's not anywhere near as accurate as Kirk has been. 

Again, if playing any of these QBs is going to result in a positive outcome, other players are going to have to step up and make a play.

And what's frustrating is how inconsistent that has been over the last few weeks or in some cases,  catastrophic.

[JDBrocks]

40 minutes ago, Sir Fobos said:

Dobbs walked into a new, complex offense that relies heavily on timing. However cerebral Dobbs is, intelligence alone is not a substitute for practice and repetition. It took Cousins more than a season to become comfortable in KOC's system, and Cousins has a superior arm to run that system. Due to the rapid way the situation unfolded in MN, Dobbs has struggled with the timing and has largely been limited to buying time with his feet and improvising, on top of his personal limitations. Once defenses zeroed in on containing him and forcing him to quickly hit WRs from the pocket, he ceased being productive and the offense faltered to its current state. If Dobbs could better sync with the WRs (which takes time to develop), this trend would reverse. I think that's what KOC anticipated, at least incrementally, and is probably why he was willing to keep Dobbs on the field so long. Dobbs' intelligence and athleticism might have justified the risk.

Edited to add: The WRs haven't done Dobbs any favors lately. I can't remember a time when receivers killed so many drives with dropped passes.

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs could do with an offseason to build a rapport with the WRs. But that experiment is likely over.

really really well stated. that's what I've seen, too.

[JDBrocks]

26 minutes ago, swede700 said:

While the receivers probably shouldn't drop a lot of those passes, I personally feel that Dobbs has never done them any favors with where he's placed the balls.  He's not anywhere near as accurate as Kirk has been. 

KJ, Addison, and Hock have all dropped multiple catchable passes that have been drive killers. Dobbs has issues with ball placement, but at some point your playmakers have to make... plays, right? KJ is going to be looking for a new deal, Hock got elite TE money, Addison is a first round pick that has shown #1 WR flashes. Dobbs is a career backup. You'd expect the talented skill guys to show case their talent and pick up the rest of the offense.

[swede700]

22 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

guys, your posts have been really on point lately, most all of you!

 

Agreed.  There are others, like me, who just misfire those arrows constantly.  🤣

[vike daddy]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Agreed.  There are others, like me, who just misfire those arrows constantly.  🤣

there's always something to be said for consistency though.

[swede700]

 

[SteelKing728]

I don't see how you go back to Dobbs. He did exactly what we needed him to do for 2 games. That's probably all we should have expected from him.

Mullens knows the system for 2 years now and is closest (although barely) to Cousins than either Dobbs or Hall. I think he's the guy going forward with Hall as QB2.

 

[SemperFeist]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I think his thoughts can be encapsulated by this...

 

His frustration was very evident during the game, and there was a shot of him on the sidelines where he just looked completely defeated. 

[vike daddy]

10 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

His frustration was very evident during the game, and there was a shot of him on the sidelines where he just looked completely defeated. 

yeah, Adams should have jumped ship when he could to the Jets, and been disappointed there.

[JDBrocks]

 

[Dolmonite26]

PFF, which is known for having a very strict definition for drops, credits the Viking's receivers with 6(!) Drops.

That is completely inexcusable, and exactly why I don't know how you walk away from this game thinking there is an obvious answer at QB going forward.

Dobbs was not good at all in this game, but how do you honestly evaluate him with those drops? How?