jebrick Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 14 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Yeah, I guess the same reasoning as to why he might drop; How high is too high for a RT? Even if he's really the best 'plug and play' option at that position. Not that it would happen, but I wonder who Khan would choose between Fuaga and Barton. As our depth chart is currently constructed, OC is obviously the greater need, but is Barton BPA?? Is RT of higher importance, in general, than OC? All these things would need to be considered. I think we are high enough up at 20, to reasonably expect one of Latham or Mims/Barton to be available at 20, but I also expect that there will be one prospect that is currently being 'drafted' in most mocks, in the top 15, that will fall to 20, and will be interesting to see what Khan does. Does he go BPA period, or just BPA at a position of need... 4 X QB - Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy 3 X WR - MH Jr, Nabers, Odunze 5 x OL - Fashanu, Fuaga, Alt, Latham, Fautanu 1 x TE - Bowers 1 x DT - Murphy II 2 x DB - Arnold, Mitchell 3 x Edge - Verse, Latu, Turner There is 19, right there... Guys who might be selected in place of one of these?? Chop Robinson, Mims, Barton, Brian Thomas, and while unlikely, if there is a team who wants the best off-ball LB, or Safety, it's possible Cooper, or DeJean, respectively, could go before us. It's also possible a team reaches for Nix or Penix, but doubtful. But I think, at worst, we have Mims, Barton, and Thomas to choose from, if we sit at 20. Good list. I am guessing more Wr are taken but YMMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 30 minutes ago, jebrick said: Good list. I am guessing more Wr are taken but YMMV I certainly wouldn't cry if Thomas and say, Adonai Mitchell go before us...I'd love for a team to fall in love with Nix or Penix, and trade up before the Rams at 19, in case they think the Rams would want a QB, or heck, come calling to us at 20, because the Rams took a QB, and want to ensure they get the 6th best QB...not likely, but Mike Tannenbaum had six QB going before us, in a recent mock... We can dream, right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 36 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Yeah, I guess the same reasoning as to why he might drop; How high is too high for a RT? Even if he's really the best 'plug and play' option at that position. We that to me is a really different thing. To me, because quality pass rushers come from both sides these days and pass rushers are moving more than ever, so you need to have 2 solid OT’s. So there’s no such thing as “too high”. More so my issue is two fold of, first, RT is really deep in this class, you can trade down and I believe that the long term difference between RT2 and RT7 is not much different. So the value you get out of the player isn’t that different. And, second, that’s two years in a row you gave up draft capital to move up for an OT. That’s not good resource management. Pick 20 is worth 850 points and 14 is worth 1100, so we need to come up with 250 points about to get there. And likely more because NO needs OL help too. So moving to 14 takes 20, 98, 119, and 2025 3rd or 20 and 51 for 14 and 150, 168, 187 which doesn’t make sense for either team. So that means in consecutive years you gave up 3 picks to take 2 OT’s. So 2 OT’s cost you 2 1st round picks, 2 3rd round picks, 1 4th round pick. That’s not great overall value. And mind you that NO trade is at minimum, because we are jumping 3 more spots than last year, so that might be 2 1sts and 3 3rds to get 2 OT’s. Imagine you used 5 top 100 picks to find 2 starters at the same position group. It’s not a guys use of resources. 36 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Not that it would happen, but I wonder who Khan would choose between Fuaga and Barton. As our depth chart is currently constructed, OC is obviously the greater need, but is Barton BPA?? Is RT of higher importance, in general, than OC? All these things would need to be considered. I think he would go Fuaga. Remember the Weidl aspect of this. He spend years in Philly where they toss high resources at OT, and 1 IOL player, bot not a ton overall at IOL. Most those picks came in rounds 3-5 rather than 1 or 2. I think it would lean that way. Plus if you can put your OT’s on an island out there you now can use 3 to block 1 or 2 on the inside and need chips, not true doubles, on the outside. 36 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: I think we are high enough up at 20, to reasonably expect one of Latham or Mims/Barton to be available at 20, but I also expect that there will be one prospect that is currently being 'drafted' in most mocks, in the top 15, that will fall to 20, and will be interesting to see what Khan does. Does he go BPA period, or just BPA at a position of need... 4 X QB - Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy 3 X WR - MH Jr, Nabers, Odunze 5 x OL - Fashanu, Fuaga, Alt, Latham, Fautanu 1 x TE - Bowers 1 x DT - Murphy II 2 x DB - Arnold, Mitchell 3 x Edge - Verse, Latu, Turner But I can throw that counterpart to you. Latham, Mims, Barton, JPJ, Paul, Morgan, Guyton can make it past 20 and you can still get really good value from there. On the QB front, I wouldn’t be shocked if Nix is in there and on the WR side Thomas going before us wouldn’t be a shock. I think there’s going to be a lot of value out there for to a team in the 24-34 area that just a list of guys who are similar but just loves one of them and wants to get them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 10 minutes ago, warfelg said: But I can throw that counterpart to you. Latham, Mims, Barton, JPJ, Paul, Morgan, Guyton can make it past 20 and you can still get really good value from there. On the QB front, I wouldn’t be shocked if Nix is in there and on the WR side Thomas going before us wouldn’t be a shock. I think there’s going to be a lot of value out there for to a team in the 24-34 area that just a list of guys who are similar but just loves one of them and wants to get them. I completely agree. That scenario of the most likely 19 picks is kind of an expected scenario for us (unless no teams take any of the Edge prospects, before us, and Bowers falls to us as well--that would not be ideal). Essentially, best case scenario for us, is that there is a run on QBs, DBs, and Edge, and both Murphy and Jer'Zhan Newton are selected... The worst case, however, would be a run on OL and WR. Not that I'd be thrilled with a WR in the 1st, but if all the Rd 1-rated OL prospects were picked, a WR would be the likely be the next logical choice, so if Thomas was also gone, I sure hope Khan/Weidl are in a trade-down mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 23 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: That scenario of the most likely 19 picks is kind of an expected scenario for us (unless no teams take any of the Edge prospects, before us, and Bowers falls to us as well--that would not be ideal). So, I’m on the opposite side - I think that would be AWESOME for us. Teams behind us that can use pass rush and or Bowers include - Philly, Dallas, Green Bay, Bills, Ravens, Chiefs, and high round two Carolina, NE, Arizona, Washington. And there would still be value for us. 25 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Essentially, best case scenario for us, is that there is a run on QBs, DBs, and Edge, and both Murphy and Jer'Zhan Newton are selected... I kinda think that would be bad because if you love Fuaga, and he along with 4 other RT’s are all there, then your fear is I can’t move down because I don’t love those other 4 as much as Fuaga. But if Fuaga is gone and you like those other 4, and Murphy, Newton, McKinstry, Cooper, Latu are all still there, then there’s value. 27 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: The worst case, however, would be a run on OL and WR. Not that I'd be thrilled with a WR in the 1st, but if all the Rd 1-rated OL prospects were picked, a WR would be the likely be the next logical choice, so if Thomas was also gone, I sure hope Khan/Weidl are in a trade-down mood. Again, like I said, there’s good there. Even if they aren’t in a trade down mood there’s a good chance someone lower will come up with a knock your socks off offer to get their guy. Sometimes there’s good to a short 1st round talent list and a long 2nd round talent list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, warfelg said: So, I’m on the opposite side - I think that would be AWESOME for us. Teams behind us that can use pass rush and or Bowers include - Philly, Dallas, Green Bay, Bills, Ravens, Chiefs, and high round two Carolina, NE, Arizona, Washington. And there would still be value for us. I kinda think that would be bad because if you love Fuaga, and he along with 4 other RT’s are all there, then your fear is I can’t move down because I don’t love those other 4 as much as Fuaga. But if Fuaga is gone and you like those other 4, and Murphy, Newton, McKinstry, Cooper, Latu are all still there, then there’s value. Again, like I said, there’s good there. Even if they aren’t in a trade down mood there’s a good chance someone lower will come up with a knock your socks off offer to get their guy. Sometimes there’s good to a short 1st round talent list and a long 2nd round talent list. If we are looking to trade down, then sure, but you are assuming that there wouldn't be a run on OTs, right after we trade down 6-10 spots, and then there is the run, and we've traded down, and don't have a guy we like. I don't think they look at it like, "hey, we'll take any of the 5 RTs available" I think they may like two, or maybe three, then will go somewhere else, and end up reaching on a different position, for fear of missing their next guy?? I'd rather have Fuaga available to us, and take the best RT prospect at that position. Anyway, I see what you are saying, and sure, there are two-sides to any coin, but I'm of the belief, that if a top 10-12 talent on the Steelers board, falls to us, you take it, and don't get cute trying to pick up another pick, yet lose the player you really wanted to begin with. But yes, if the aim is to definitely trade down, and being happy with whoever is left available of the RTs, or OCs when we finally do pick, then sure, the opposite of what I'd prefer happen, might work out best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 8 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: If we are looking to trade down, then sure, but you are assuming that there wouldn't be a run on OTs, right after we trade down 6-10 spots, and then there is the run, and we've traded down, and don't have a guy we like. I don't think they look at it like, "hey, we'll take any of the 5 RTs available" I think they may like two, or maybe three, then will go somewhere else, and end up reaching on a different position, for fear of missing their next guy?? I'd rather have Fuaga available to us, and take the best RT prospect at that position. Anyway, I see what you are saying, and sure, there are two-sides to any coin, but I'm of the belief, that if a top 10-12 talent on the Steelers board, falls to us, you take it, and don't get cute trying to pick up another pick, yet lose the player you really wanted to begin with. But yes, if the aim is to definitely trade down, and being happy with whoever is left available of the RTs, or OCs when we finally do pick, then sure, the opposite of what I'd prefer happen, might work out best. I mean, that’s always the risk of trading down and sounds like the reasoning Colbert always used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 To trade down you have to not LOVE a draft pick and be flexible enough to handle unknown. Or need draft capital for later. As has been said many times, this is a great draft to collect day 2 picks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 15 minutes ago, jebrick said: To trade down you have to not LOVE a draft pick and be flexible enough to handle unknown. Or need draft capital for later. As has been said many times, this is a great draft to collect day 2 picks The first part is what matters the most. You have a lot of guys they like, which what I was saying there, and you have them evenly ranked, there’s value in moving down and taking the 8.4 rated guy rather than the 8.52 rated guy. But it’s a new FO, and we have evidence (Darnell Washington) that they have said they like a guy, he’s top on the board, and they saw the value in moving down over the player. They got really lucky in that. The old FO operated with the “how far do we think our top guy will fall” and often over valued the player over the package. And that’s what I hope is in the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) And don't get me wrong....I'm NOT anti-trading down, but if they like Fuaga, or, as @jebrick says, LOVE, and feel he's in a different tier of RTs, then the remainder, then we need to take him, and play the trade down game in the 2nd, or 3rd, as we did. Maybe it's not a Day 2 Pick, but a Rd 4, Day 3 pick, then that may work out nearly as well. I think Fuaga is a top 12-15 talent in this draft--essentially, for simplicity sake, and Tier 1 RT prospect, whereas Latham, Guyton, and Mims are Tier 2a (Latham) and 2b (Mims, Guyton) RTs, as prospects go, right now. That's not to say these others couldn't develop into just as good as a RT as Fuaga, which is often the case with many draft picks--pro ready vs developmental with high-upside. I will also say, that I think the 'fire' has cooled a bit on JPJ, and Barton looks to be the top OC prospect, if we can believe what the 'press' is spouting. Either way, if our goal is to first address the OC position, then I think it's safe to trade down, and would absolutely prefer it. Edited April 4 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlon Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 nd don't get me wrong....I'm NOT anti-trading down, but if they like Fuaga, or, as @jebrick says, LOVE, and feel he's in a different tier of RT^^^^^^^^^^ Definitely superior as a run blocker. Very capable pass blocker, but his run blocking to me puts him ahead of Latham and Mims, though again, Mims' ceiling is pretty much the highest in this whole draft IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 21 hours ago, jebrick said: To trade down you have to not LOVE a draft pick and be flexible enough to handle unknown. Or need draft capital for later. As has been said many times, this is a great draft to collect day 2 picks this seems ideal. If the special player is there at 20 or a bit earlier, they might do that, but getting more picks makes sense since the team has many needs. Trade for WR Sutton would help, maybe spare a RD1 WR pick they might be considering . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 https://steelersdepot.com/2024/04/dulac-believes-steelers-have-narrowed-focus-to-just-three-centers-in-draft/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter 2 of 3 can be had after 20, likely all 3. Feeling more confident about a trade down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 https://x.com/brandonthornnfl/status/1776258055258202117?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 37 minutes ago, warfelg said: https://x.com/brandonthornnfl/status/1776258055258202117?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA That's encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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