CB

[3rivers]

30 minutes ago, mwalker said:

Agree on Sneed.
I know C.Wilkins is unlikely, but as post June cut, I think LarryO should be considered, as he'd save us like 8 mil.
I think he's way overpaid for what he brings. That, and I think Cam isn't for much longer. Wilkins solidifies that unit
with Benton for the log haul. Miami will probably franchise him.

agree on all this.  The foul idea of a DL rotation isn't good either unless all the DL are really good. I don't think any of them are really good, Cam was at one time but injuries and age have set in, just the reality of the game.    I think Larry is a solid player, but he might be a cap casualty. 

Sneed won't be in a rotation , so thats where you spend. Plus, him and Porter taking away 2 WR's  will let Minkah roam in a more compressed field to intercept passes - he won't have any responsibility to the outside CB's   You could redesign a scheme with 2 lockdown CB's

[Steeler Hitman]

3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

agree on all this.  The foul idea of a DL rotation isn't good either unless all the DL are really good.

A DL rotation is not foul. Some food for thought my friend as we have discussed this before. The game has changed and it is becoming even more specialized. I agree that the Steelers need more talent on the DL. A DL rotation keeps your DL fresh and healthy.  Keeping these guys out for 90% - 95% of the plays is asking for trouble.  TJ and Alex where on the field the majority of the time. A valid argument has been brought up that they could have been more effective by rotating Golden and Herbig in. The game is changing to where depth and specialization are needed. The NFL expanded the PS, but I  have been saying that they also need to expand the game day roster to all 53 players at a minimum. They are playing 17 games and many times on three to five days rest.

Just like RB's are now being two-headed, it is wise to allow your players to be rotated and kept fresh.  This is even more important on the Steelers when they have been on the field so much based on TOP.

I don't think any of them are really good, Cam was at one time but injuries and age have set in, just the reality of the game.    I think Larry is a solid player, but he might be a cap casualty. 

Having solid players and depth helps. You log Cam and Larry O 90% of the time, they get hurt and worn down and then you are playing Loudermilk and Watts 100% of the time. These guys are 300 pounders and in their late 20's early 30's. Their bodies have taken a pounding. You prolong careers and probably get better results with fresh players.

Sneed won't be in a rotation , so that's where you spend. Plus, him and Porter taking away 2 WR's  will let Minkah roam in a more compressed field to intercept passes - he won't have any responsibility to the outside CB's   You could redesign a scheme with 2 lockdown CB's

I agree with this. We want two good starting CB's, a solid Nickel, and hopefully some good developmental depth with Trice and Rush.  As far as rotation, Sneed and Porter are not going up against 300 - 350 OL's in the trenches. A lot of teams are seeing results and benefits of rotations on the DL.  The 49'ers abused our OL doing this game one.  Their back-up had four sacks. It's a long season (a marathon  not a sprint to the Super Bowl).  Those good teams that are typically the healthiest make it.

Something not talked about Tomlin's play-off record is that he only had Big Ben, AB, and Lev Bell together for one game if I recall. TJ has been hurt in two of those games as well.  Having your best players fresh goes a long way. This year no TJ, Cam and Minkah not anywhere near even 80% due to injuries and injuries at ILB  (Holecomb and Kwon on IR, and Roberts playing hurt) and (Minkah, no Neal) safety.

Best way to keep your defense fresh is a great offense that possesses the ball, takes time off the clock, and scores TD's.  Fixing the offense will go a long way towards helping as well. 

 

Here's an article on the Bills DL rotation from 2019 that I had read. Not coincidentally, the Bills DL got the better of the Steelers OL in the play-off game.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/nfl/how-the-bills-defensive-line-rotation-works/

 

 

[AFF]

The Steerlers might feel they have their #1 CB in JPJ…might think just to fill the #2 spot with a solid vet like they did before with someone like Nelson or Haden.

[43M]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:35 PM, Ward4HOF said:

I'd rather the 'Steeler Way', than the 

Commander's way, or Chargers...or Bears...or Cardinals...or Panthers...or Jets...or Dolphins...or...well, you get the point.

We've won at least 10 games, 6 out of the last 10 seasons, and 2 of those were 9 wins and a tie.

I'd rather be relevant every year (whether we win in the Playoffs  or not), than be at least half of teams that go 5-7 years with no playoff appearances, then win one game, then another several years with no relevance.  But to each their own, I guess... 

 

We havent actually been relevant since at least 2018, despite what our records may say.

These meaningless trips to the playoffs with no wins fool some people (including coaches and staff) into believing we are closer to being a good team than we actually are.

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, AFF said:

The Steerlers might feel they have their #1 CB in JPJ…might think just to fill the #2 spot with a solid vet like they did before with someone like Nelson or Haden.

Haden and Nelson were on two different levels. Joe Haden was brought in to be a lock down #1 type. I think Stevie Nelson was brought in to be the value that you are speaking of.  Today you really need three solid CB's: a shut down player and a solid #2 and slot guy. As many complaints that come about the $$$ spent on defense they still have some holes. With the pass rush having a solid secondary should help this team.

1 hour ago, 43M said:

We haven't actually been relevant since at least 2018, despite what our records may say.

I would actually say 2017 when they had everyone. Huge problem was that they only played with everyone in 2017.

These meaningless trips to the playoffs with no wins fool some people (including coaches and staff) into believing we are closer to being a good team than we actually are.

I understand the sentiment of many, but honestly would winning one or two play-off games really matter? Not with our fan base. Bill Cowher loss four Championships and one SB and the fan base said, "Bill Cowher can't win the big one!"  I get "the standard" needs to change. No argument there. Losing stinks. However, the only thing that really matters is hoisting a Lombardi and flashing your ring. 

The eight year play-off drought stinks.  To your point, upsetting Buffalo was doable, but I don't think that they beat the Ravens. So then they are 1-1 and we are still talking Mediocre Mike or  .500+ Mike.  Bottom line is that we have not recovered from losing the SB back in the 2010 season. It has been disappointments and letdowns since then In 2016 and 2017 they had opportunity. They couldn't get past New England and Tom Brady and in 2017, they got ripped off on a TD and then imploded at home versus the Jaguars who out-physicalled and out-muscled them despite the five turnovers. Honestly, it is SB trophy or nothing.

 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, 43M said:

We havent actually been relevant since at least 2018, despite what our records may say.

maybe not since 2010 while there was still cowhers culture here.  tomlins culture and players have been a mediocre bunch and will continue until major changes are brought in (new HC etc)  . It's been way too many years but AR2 keeps filling the stadium so thats good enough I guess

'winning' - .500 or a bit better

steeler way by AR2

[43M]

5 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Haden and Nelson were on two different levels. Joe Haden was brought in to be a lock down #1 type. I think Stevie Nelson was brought in to be the value that you are speaking of. 

Meh...Haden wasnt close to a lock down guy when we brought him in.    He wasnt even a particularly great number 1 corner his last couple years in Cleveland, but I think they hoped he could turn it around here, and he kind of did.

Nelson was just a solid stop gap starter who had his ups and downs and ended up being better than expected.

We need more than just a number 2 CB, depending what happens with PP and Wallace.

[Steeler Hitman]

12 hours ago, 43M said:

Meh...Haden wasn't close to a lock down guy when we brought him in.    He wasn't even a particularly great number 1 corner his last couple years in Cleveland, but I think they hoped he could turn it around here, and he kind of did.

True. Good points. No doubt that Haden was more on the downswing of his career, but far better than anyone else we had and yeah maybe I would call him 1C. 😀

He definitely brought leadership, experience and made some plays. Not the guy on the level of his first few seasons, but he was still pretty good.

Nelson was just a solid stop gap starter who had his ups and downs and ended up being better than expected.

Yep. I actually liked Nelson and thought they should have kept him. I thought that about Ahkello Witherspoon as well. He was up and down, but I always thought he was better than Levi Wallace. He just seemed to always get nicked-up or have nagging injuries in Pittsburgh.

We need more than just a number 2 CB, depending what happens with PP and Wallace.

I think PP goes to safety and Wallace is gone. I see a dive into free agency and the draft.

 

[43M]

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

think PP goes to safety and Wallace is gone. I see a dive into free agency and the draft.

Id rather we dump Peterson and save $7M and roll with Eric Rowe for a year.    Peterson wasnt particularly good most of last year and will be 34 this year, which is an age where many non QB players hit another wall.  Wouldnt mind keeping Peterson, but not for $10m at safety.  

[warfelg]

Kaboly reporting there’s interest in retaining Wallace. 

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, 43M said:

Id rather we dump Peterson and save $7M and roll with Eric Rowe for a year.    Peterson wasn't particularly good most of last year and will be 34 this year, which is an age where many non QB players hit another wall.  Wouldn't mind keeping Peterson, but not for $10m at safety.  

I agree about the $ and age. I do think he would be a decent piece of the defense  if the price is right.  I think Peterson got better as the year progressed and he could be a decent piece in the secondary. I do see value in his play, but only if the price is right.

I am resigning Rowe regardless. I think he should have been on the field much sooner. I think he outplayed Peterson, Neal, and Kazee.

23 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Kaboly reporting there’s interest in retaining Wallace. 

God, I hope not.

Levi is in that mold of Mason Cole and Dan Moore: He's a good teammate, but inconsistent player. They all need to be and can be upgraded.

[3rivers]

36 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Kaboly reporting there’s interest in retaining Wallace. 

steeler way

now we have to decide who will play out of position this year. My pick is peterson will be moved to safety despite no being able to tackle. He's a tomlin player, set no matter what 

wallace and peterson should both be gone. Living in his fears again, tomlin won't remove the shades to see what else is out there at CB or S, so he will keep what he has and hope to be mr.529 once again

7 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Levi is in that mold of Mason Cole and Dan Moore: He's a good teammate, but inconsistent player. They all need to be and can be upgraded.

 

thats the tomlin way,  like the person, who cares about the player - he starts and is here no matter what.  Levi could be a CB3 or CB4 perhaps but so could a 5th round pick that might also be better - but live in fears and don't take the chance, stay mediocre as always

This regime will make various changes at assistants and across the roster, yet tomlin will keep his guys across the roster and the results will be the same.  All a waste, they should have moved on from tomlin  but now it will be more of the same, rinse/repeat. 

[warfelg]

Guys. There’s no way we go into the draft having let Wallace walk, cut PO, let got of Sullivan. Wallace has gotten a really bad rap, especially how mismanaged safety was this past year. But when you are faced with that many holes in an area it really is worth it to bring back a guy whose strengths and weaknesses you know. From week 8 on (coincidentally when JPJ started) Wallace graded as one of the better CB2’s in the entire league. 

[AFF]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Guys. There’s no way we go into the draft having let Wallace walk, cut PO, let got of Sullivan. Wallace has gotten a really bad rap, especially how mismanaged safety was this past year. But when you are faced with that many holes in an area it really is worth it to bring back a guy whose strengths and weaknesses you know. From week 8 on (coincidentally when JPJ started) Wallace graded as one of the better CB2’s in the entire league. 

Yea they’re not walking into the draft with only JPJ at CB.

Peterson has a roster bonus due IIRC 3/16 so we will know with him by that point.

Theyll resign Wallace or sign some sort of decent vet(at worst) so they don’t force a pick come draft weekend.

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, AFF said:

Yea they’re not walking into the draft with only JPJ at CB.

Peterson has a roster bonus due IIRC 3/16 so we will know with him by that point.

Theyll resign Wallace or sign some sort of decent vet(at worst) so they don’t force a pick come draft weekend.

I think you can get Wallace at 2/14 tops, 2/10 most likely. I’d take a solid if unspectacular CB2 bridge at that price. In fact I’m likely negotiating with him and Johnson/Snead at the same time. If you get both great, if not you better land one of them because it ain’t great out there.