Kyle Shanahan

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, stl4life07 said:

You are right about the pressure. Again Purdy showed in the playoffs he can make plays when trailing to help the team win from behind. But I’m not stuck on the QB position bc I have valid points. He didn’t make a big time throw to Aiyuk in the NFCCG it was a lucky bounce off the defenders helmet that was caught by Aiyuk. He didn’t get the ball in the endzone in OT and Mahomes did. That was the difference. So two things can be true. He showed he isn’t a liability (which I’ve always said he was fine) but when going up against top level QBs in Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar that he can’t make one more play than them to win. 
 

 

 

 

Luck happens to any quarterback in the playoffs, and yes you're allowed to benefit from it. Especially when trailing 17 points in the half of a champ game, because the defense put your offense in a hole. Purdy made many more plays that weren't luck-dependent in that game (especially with his legs), as he does in most of his games, which helped the 49ers comeback. 

He didn't get the ball in the endzone, because his offensive line was being demolished the majority of the game. He didn't get the ball in the endzone, because CMC fumbled on the opening drive taking away a possession. He didn't get the ball in the endzone because Trent Williams had killer back to back penalties that wiped out another key possession. Again, you're ignoring key factors in specific situations, because it's beneficial to your narrow lens that focuses JUST on QB production irrespective of anything else. 

I don't know who you consider a top level QB, but in 5 playoff games (not counting the NFC title game from last year) he's played Geno Smith, Dak Prescott, Jordan Love, Jared Goff, and Patrick Mahomes. He's lost to one of them narrowly, who might be the greatest of all time when it's all said, and done. Everyone else the 49ers have beaten when he's been the QB, and it wasn't in spite of. Dak finished I think 2nd in MVP this past season. So no, there is no definitive narrative that he can't go toe to toe with the best quarterbacks in the league come playoff time. Losing to Patrick Mahomes doesn't make that true. 

Edited February 18 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Herodreamer79]

2 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

Exactly. If we're going to nitpick, Purdy had plenty of chances to put the game away and didn't. Like when Mahomes gifted them the INT at the beginning of the 3rd quarter. They literally got the ball at midfield and did nothing with it. Or if Purdy was any better, they would have scored a TD on the first OT drive. He wasn't the reason they lost, but he wasn't going to the be the reason they won. Let's not forget the 49ers defense played just about as well as they could have. Mahomes just overcame it because he's Mahomes. In the Super Bowl when it matters most, your QB needs to be the reason you won.

 

okay? I don't necessarily disagree.

I would point out that even the great Josh Allen and the MVP of the league Lamar Jackson couldn't overcome Mahomes and that defense when it mattered most. 

So what's the point you're making here? 

Pat Mahomes is just great? I dont think anyone disputes that. 

Purdy is not Mahomes? No one disputes that either. 

Purdy isn't good enough to beat mahomes? I think he showed in that game he's plenty good enough to beat mahomes. just didn't happen. 

 

 

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[Soko]

1 hour ago, stl4life07 said:

The top tier QBs like a Mahomes and Lamar really take advantage of the rules. I hear people already complaining about how the Chiefs never got a hold call in any Superbowl game. You don’t think that helps Mahomes? And the Superbowl he lost it took for his entire OL to be hurt. But the relaxed rules helps QB why do you think someone like Sam Howell can look decent early in the season? But since he isn’t at top tier QB it didn’t help him enough. 

It helps all QBs. Defenses getting RTP calls, “late hits” out of bounds particularly on QBs, the illegality of hitting a defenseless receiver, the emphasis on illegal contact/DPI - they help all QBs. Better/smarter/more experienced QBs can better take advantage of that discrepancy, but the penalties exist unilaterally. Not a single person in the universe has said that the main differentiator between Mahomes and Howell is that Howell doesn’t get the superstar calls.

The Bucs had a sorry run game and Johnson actually had a decent year outside of that, so I’m not even sure what you were trying to bring up by bringing in the Gruden Bucs.

[Herodreamer79]

Bringing officiating into this is so weak. come on. let's not go there. that's like complaining about bad weather. it's pointless. 

look at the history... you can count on 2 hands the number of holding penalties called in the last 5 superbowls. both of these teams have been here before. Bill Vinovich called the game in 2019. they knew it was going to be a no-call day. 

hell, chiefs sent free rushers at Purdy all damn night and they only got him once. 

Mahomes got sacked like 4 times. 

 

[Nex_Gen]

12 hours ago, Herodreamer79 said:

I think he showed in that game he's plenty good enough to beat mahomes. just didn't happen. 

Except he didn't, and that's why they lost, is my point. People keep wanting to point out Shanahan's play-calling, OT decision, or 100 other things he didn't do right before realizing he had to micro manage his QB the entire game vs an opponent who dared him to beat them by sending a zero blitz on every down-and-out situation. 

[Herodreamer79]

3 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

Except he didn't, and that's why they lost, is my point. People keep wanting to point out Shanahan's play-calling, OT decision, or 100 other things he didn't do right before realizing he had to micro manage his QB the entire game vs an opponent who dared him to beat them by sending a zero blitz on every down-and-out situation. 

 

Shanahan is a micro manager by default. this isn't a determent on brock. Kyle loves brock. Spagnuolo was on Baldy and gargona's pod cast gushing on how impressed he was with Purdy.

i think it's a bit more nuanced than that. the 49ers offensive line is terrible. i would say that was the primary reason they couldnt get it done. they cannot pass protect. there's plenty of videos out there detailing this. they missed blocks and botched assignments on a number of key plays that could have given purdy a tick longer to get the ball to the open receiver to win the game. 

all year the single biggest criticism of Purdy is he's in a position where he can't fail... just an average joe driving a rolls royce of an offense. well, his surrounding cast should have been able to help him out and make the play and they didn't. 

instead you had Trent Williams stall out a drive by committing back to back penalties. you had Christian McCaffrey fumbling inside FG range and taking points off the board. you had Deebo Samuel unable to get open. You had George Kittle not paying attention to fall on the fumble. 

his entire offense except for Jauan Jennings let him down. 

The rolls royce had 3 flat tires. 

and yet purdy only took 1 sack, committed no turnovers and left the field with the lead on the last 3 possessions 

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[TecmoSuperJoe]

7 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

Except he didn't, and that's why they lost, is my point. People keep wanting to point out Shanahan's play-calling, OT decision, or 100 other things he didn't do right before realizing he had to micro manage his QB the entire game vs an opponent who dared him to beat them by sending a zero blitz on every down-and-out situation. 

Purdy's performance isn't why the 49ers lost. You don't know what you're talking about if you think Shanahan micro managed the game for his QB. Alex Rollins just made a great video on this pointing out how Shanahan kept putting his QB in hideous situations with his playcalling. Purdy had to win the game in spite of his coach. That's also irrespective of the awful protection from the OL.

Edited February 19 by TecmoSuperJoe

[CasperX22]

Yeah it's a lazy narrative to place the blame at the feet of Purdy.  Purdy played well.  The 49ers had some questionable play calling on offense throughout the game and some guys came up small around Purdy.  Deebo in particular was abysmal and the Chiefs did a good job of limiting CMC's effectiveness and he had a few uncharacteristic plays himself.  Can't really blame the defense either.  I'm not sure you could ask much more of those guys holding Mahomes to 19 pts in regulation, but before long Mahomes is going to break through if you don't put them away.

[stl4life07]

When it comes to Kyle I dont hear anyone talk about this at all. The NFCCG against the Rams in 2021 the Niners was up 17-14 in the 4th quarter. There first possession went like this:

Jimmy G completes to Mitchell for 21yds. Incomplete. Jimmy G completes to Deebo for 12yds. Mitchell rushes for 9yds.

Now those total 42yds. After that this is what happened the rest of the game.

Mitchell rush -1yd. Juszczyk no gain. Penalty delay of game -5yds Punt. Incomplete. Penalty delay of game -5yds. Incomplete (the Ramsey dropped pick 6 btw). Incomplete. Punt.  Incomplete. Jimmy G completes to Jennings -3yds. Interception. END GAME!

So when I hear everyone place the blame of the Niners losing that game bc Tartt dropped an interception I go ballistic bc he didnt cost the Niners the game. When you start the 4th quarter up 17-14 and have 42yds of offense right away. Then the right of the 4th quarter you lose -8yds of offense, turn the ball over once, nearly gave up a pick 6, and you lose 20-17 its on Kyle. Why did the offense disappear? Thats on him not Tartt dropping a int at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

So eventually Kyle need to get held accountable for always coming up short in these big games. I hate to say this but its true. The Niners are like the Cowboys accept they get a round or two further so their fans have more hope that this might be the year. But I do think it hurts even more bc the Cowboys losing in the wildcard round or divisional round is hurtful but at least their fanbase can say they dont have a losing streak in the Superbowl. To have a losing streak of (0-3) in the Superbowl like thats Buffalo Bills (0-4) bad. Now I know one of those losses wasnt on Kyle. It was Jim Harbaugh there losing to the Ravens with Kaepernick in the Superbowl. But my point still stands, the Niners have to capitalize when they climb all the way to the top bc its not certain they will continue to get there the following seasons. Its all on Kyle imo. 

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

8 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

So eventually Kyle need to get held accountable for always coming up short in these big games. I hate to say this but its true. The Niners are like the Cowboys accept they get a round or two further so their fans have more hope that this might be the year. But I do think it hurts even more bc the Cowboys losing in the wildcard round or divisional round is hurtful but at least their fanbase can say they dont have a losing streak in the Superbowl. To have a losing streak of (0-3) in the Superbowl like thats Buffalo Bills (0-4) bad. Now I know one of those losses wasnt on Kyle. It was Jim Harbaugh there losing to the Ravens with Kaepernick in the Superbowl. But my point still stands, the Niners have to capitalize when they climb all the way to the top bc its not certain they will continue to get there the following seasons. Its all on Kyle imo. 

Kyle has been put on a spitroast in the public eye ever since he was OC for Atlanta in that Super Bowl. So I'm not sure what you mean by him needing to be held accountable. Unless you mean fired, because that's not going to happen. That would be stupid. 

The 49ers aren't like the Cowboys, because yes they do make it to championship games or the Super Bowl. That's a world of difference compared to getting axed in the first round at home, or just winning due to beating a cellar dweller team like Tampa Bay. 

"Every team has to capitalize when they climb all the way to the top, because it's not certain they will continue to get there in the following seasons."

Yes, I think every team that ever competes in big games like these already knows that regardless if it works out for them or not. Let's not pretend they, especially the 49ers, aren't trying. 

[Forge]

12 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

So eventually Kyle need to get held accountable for always coming up short in these big games

What does accountability look like to you in this scenario?

 

[stl4life07]

8 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Kyle has been put on a spitroast in the public eye ever since he was OC for Atlanta in that Super Bowl. So I'm not sure what you mean by him needing to be held accountable. Unless you mean fired, because that's not going to happen. That would be stupid. 

The 49ers aren't like the Cowboys, because yes they do make it to championship games or the Super Bowl. That's a world of difference compared to getting axed in the first round at home, or just winning due to beating a cellar dweller team like Tampa Bay. 

"Every team has to capitalize when they climb all the way to the top, because it's not certain they will continue to get there in the following seasons."

Yes, I think every team that ever competes in big games like these already knows that regardless if it works out for them or not. Let's not pretend they, especially the 49ers, aren't trying. 

He has to a certain extent. Jimmy G was the scapegoat for the Niners collapse in the Superbowl bc he couldnt make that throw to Sanders. But smart people knew that Jimmy G wasnt the guy and that Kyle kept him longer and the players kept talking him up trying to make him seem like he is the guy. Thats on Kyle. Then in the NFCCG the scapegoat was on Tartt. And people still say to this day if Tartt catches that ball the Niners go to the Superbowl. Thats far from the truth. Kyle offense went in the tank before, during and after that dropped ball by Tartt. Kyle gets a pass from the debacle that is Lance. Thats literally a fireable offense unless you have won a ton of Superbowls like Belichick. Then you can get away with huge mistakes like that which we know Belichick did bc he cant draft, find, or develop skill positions on offense to save his life.

The only pass I can give Kyle is in the NFCCG against the Eagles. Cant do anything when all your QBs are dropping like flies due to injury. So yeah like Kyle has been getting a pass to a certain extent. Until Kyle changes and it dont even have to be major changes the Niners wont get back to winning Superbowls. There is a reason its been 30+ yrs of no Superbowls for the Niners. Yes Superbowls are hard to win but for the Niners its never been the issue of getting there or on the doorstep. The issue is winning. Why do you think teams that have in the last 25 years of teams with the most playoff success the Niners are the only team that have no Superbowls to show for it? As a matter of fact every team on that list have at least 2 Superbowls. Pats, Steelers, Bucs, Ravens, Rams, Chiefs. 

[Nabbs4u]

15 hours ago, Forge said:

What does accountability look like to you in this scenario?

 

Exactly.  There's nothing Lynch can do but hope one day it changes. 

You going to fire him? 👌

Take away 4th QT play calling? 👌

There is nothing that can be done, but fire other positional coaches as scapegoats. 

Edited February 25 by Nabbs4u

[TecmoSuperJoe]

12 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

He has to a certain extent. Jimmy G was the scapegoat for the Niners collapse in the Superbowl bc he couldnt make that throw to Sanders. But smart people knew that Jimmy G wasnt the guy and that Kyle kept him longer and the players kept talking him up trying to make him seem like he is the guy. Thats on Kyle. Then in the NFCCG the scapegoat was on Tartt. And people still say to this day if Tartt catches that ball the Niners go to the Superbowl. Thats far from the truth. Kyle offense went in the tank before, during and after that dropped ball by Tartt. Kyle gets a pass from the debacle that is Lance. Thats literally a fireable offense unless you have won a ton of Superbowls like Belichick. Then you can get away with huge mistakes like that which we know Belichick did bc he cant draft, find, or develop skill positions on offense to save his life.

The only pass I can give Kyle is in the NFCCG against the Eagles. Cant do anything when all your QBs are dropping like flies due to injury. So yeah like Kyle has been getting a pass to a certain extent. Until Kyle changes and it dont even have to be major changes the Niners wont get back to winning Superbowls. There is a reason its been 30+ yrs of no Superbowls for the Niners. Yes Superbowls are hard to win but for the Niners its never been the issue of getting there or on the doorstep. The issue is winning. Why do you think teams that have in the last 25 years of teams with the most playoff success the Niners are the only team that have no Superbowls to show for it? As a matter of fact every team on that list have at least 2 Superbowls. Pats, Steelers, Bucs, Ravens, Rams, Chiefs. 

Actually Kyle was also immediately held responsible in the fallout of that loss just as much as Jimmy G in the 4th quarter, if not more so. And Kyle still is to this day. Jimmy was playing in his second year on a monster contract that made him the highest paid QB in the league. At that point in time, as the SB was playing out, yes Kyle, Lynch, and the front brass thought he was "the guy". That's why they made the trade for him, and that's why they handed him a fat deal after 5 games. Even after his injury, there wasn't talk about Jimmy not being able to hack it as the long term starter until he kept getting hurt the next season with the salary he was making. 

As much as the Lance trade was a fiasco, and drafting Brock Purdy essentially saved the braintrust, Kyle can be at the helm of that decision, and not get fired because at the end of the day, the 49ers were yet again one of the final 4 or 2 teams standing. He gets results 4 out of the last 5 years regardless if the process isn't always ideal (getting lucky with Brock). You don't fire someone because of that, and you aren't going to fire someone like Kyle would have another job by sundown. 

Yes, and there was a time the Steelers went 25+ years without winning a Super Bowl, and that was under ideal ownership. Bill Cower didn't win one until his 14th year, and he had three straight non-playoff seasons during that time. Yet like the smart ownership they are, the Steelers didn't fire him, because they knew they had a HOF coach on their hands. 

Every team is trying to win. Again, you're acting like the 49ers didn't try hard enough, because they came up empty. Did Bud Grant, and Marv Levy not try hard enough all those SBs they lost??? That didn't keep them out of the HOF. 

[CasperX22]

3 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Exactly.  There's nothing Lynch can do but hope one day it changes. 

You going to fire him? 👌

Take away 4th QT play calling? 👌

There is nothing that can be done, but fire other positional coaches as scapegoats. 

I mean eventually you're going to fire a guy if you keep putting championship caliber teams together and he doesn't finish the deal.