***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Adam Driver can only portray broody. He cant portray any other emotions, at least in my minds eye. And he is a very, very weak villain. I just cant stand him in this role and have disliked him from the get go.

OT: For some reason I keep thinking Cillian Murphy would have killed it as Kylo Ren, but he is probably too old. The rage he channels at times in Peaky combined with his naturally stoic look would be great, but he can shoot expressions of humanity through the stoicism instantly too. Probably a bit too serious an actor to consider Star Wars though.

Well we disagree 100% then. He's the most complex villain we've seen and has a lot more going on that just "I'm the big, strong bad guy". And while it's fine to disagree, you're just plain wrong when you say he can't portray other emotions. Just a few scenes where you can feel the difference:

The scene with Vader's mask (TFA)
Scene where Rey fights off his mind games (TFA) - 
Scene with Han (TFA) 
Flashback with Luke where he is just a scared kid
Kylo in the tiefighter when targeting Leia

That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head which show different emotions. Like I said, if all you're looking for is an untouchable bad guy who eventually gets taken down, that's not what he is. But I'd love to hear who you think could do a better job playing Ben Solo. 

 

EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't read the OT part. He would be alright, but as you said he's too old to be Ben. Especially to play the scared kid in the flashbacks. 

[JonStark]

6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

If it happens and my friend doesn't know about it, from his perspective it didn't happen. So he'll still ***** about it.

Right, but I'm using that as a reference. It doesn't matter whether the general public know if Darth Maul was dead or not. He wasn't. So the possibility exists Snoke isn't dead either. 

[JonStark]

4 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

A bunch of other things happened in the movies thaty were completely dismissed in this one. 

Well then it's a good thing we have another whole movie in the trilogy.

[Calvert28]

2 minutes ago, JonStark said:

Well we disagree 100% then. He's the most complex villain we've seen 

Considering he is the only villain that has some explanation to him so far (the other 2 having no explanations or depths to them) your argument has about as much weight as their back stories do. 

[Deadpulse]

6 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

For now until they change their minds. 

Why would they changed their minds? The only reason the dumped a lot of the old EU is because it put a strangle hold on what they could do with future movies. 

[Calvert28]

Just now, JonStark said:

Well then it's a good thing we have another whole movie in the trilogy.

Just for that one to be screwed up too? I'll watch it but I wrote The Matrix trilogy off after the 2nd movie and by the 3rd I had no expectations what so ever. 

[Calvert28]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

Why would they changed their minds? The only reason the dumped a lot of the old EU is because it put a strangle hold on what they could do with future movies. 

Cause they're Disney and they don't care about content. 

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, Calvert28 said:

Cause they're Disney and they don't care about content. 

Where in god's name did you get that idea from? They literally wrote the book on connected content with the MCU. 

[JonStark]

2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Considering he is the only villain that has some explanation to him so far (the other 2 having no explanations or depths to them) your argument has about as much weight as their back stories do. 

I don't understand this at all. Are you saying Darth Vader and Darth Sidious weren't good villains? 

Unless you're one of the ones that think those types are the only good villains, which is the only thing I got out of that. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Are you saying Darth Vader and Darth Sidious weren't good villains? 

I would say that the best way to put it is this, for decades kids have been dressing like Vader and even Sidious. Do you think kids 5 years from the end of this trilogy will dress like Kyle freaking Ren? No. He is forgettable, he isn't menacing, he isn't mysterious, he isn't scary in the least. A lot may be writing, a lot is Adam as a bad casting choice, but there is something missing with him and many people feel the same way.

[JonStark]

1 minute ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I would say that the best way to put it is this, for decades kids have been dressing like Vader and even Sidious. Do you think kids 5 years from the end of this trilogy will dress like Kyle freaking Ren? No. He is forgettable, he isn't menacing, he isn't mysterious, he isn't scary in the least. A lot may be writing, a lot is Adam as a bad casting choice, but there is something missing with him and many people feel the same way.

*Kylo

You're partly right though. He isn't menacing...yet. Answer this, was Anakin menacing or mysterious towards the end of the prequels? We are getting introduced to Ben Solo a lot earlier in his lifetime than we were Darth Vader, which is why I think it's stupid to compare the two.

Now that we know what set him off, it makes his character arc so much stronger. He's not just a spoiled angry kid that wanted to be bad. Seeing his idol, who is also his uncle, holding a light saber over his head drove him there and there are SO many ways his character could go. In the next movie he could become the big, bad, menacing villain you want. It's also been said Snoke may have had another apprentice, so what if he comes for him and Kylo demolishes him, giving him a more untouchable feel. It would have been too much to introduce in this one, but we could start off IX seeing a flashback of the other apprentice and Snoke, both giving us a little of Snoke's history and introducing the other guy. He could also go the grey jedi route if somehow Snoke isn't dead. We just don't know what he is going to be yet. He is a lot younger than Vader was in the OT and has time to grow into the powerful villain. If you only saw the prequels, would you have guessed whiny little Anakin (the character, not Hayden Christianson) would turn into the almighty Darth Vader?

And yes, I already know kids dressing as Kylo and have been since TFA. Like I said, Adam Driver is perfect for the Kylo Ren that is in these movies. Just because that character isn't the type of villain you wanted does not make it a bad casting choice. He's made for the role. 

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I would say that the best way to put it is this, for decades kids have been dressing like Vader and even Sidious. Do you think kids 5 years from the end of this trilogy will dress like Kyle freaking Ren? No. He is forgettable, he isn't menacing, he isn't mysterious, he isn't scary in the least. A lot may be writing, a lot is Adam as a bad casting choice, but there is something missing with him and many people feel the same way.

You know people forget but Vader in the first movie is a geek who comes on a ship and lets to droids get away while Leia berates him, has literally every imperial officer in the Death Star calling him a loser who buys into a fake religon, can hardly beat an old man in a duel and needs said old man to basically give up, lets the heroes escape yet again, then when the Death Star is under attack gets jobbed out by Han Solo who blasts his ship away while he spins in a circle like a chump.

[lancerman]

[MacReady]

Just now, lancerman said:

You know people forget but Vader in the first movie is a geek who comes on a ship and lets to droids get away while Leia berates him, has literally every imperial officer in the Death Star calling him a loser who buys into a fake religon, can hardly beat an old man in a duel and needs said old man to basically give up, lets the heroes escape yet again, then when the Death Star is under attack gets jobbed out by Han Solo who blasts his ship away while he spins in a circle like a chump.

Yep, every single complaint so far you can point to the original trilogy and show that it was the same thing or worse there.

The only thing that's important is whether or not nerds (I say that in a good way) and kids like Star Wars movies now as much as nerds and kids in the 70's liked Star Wars then.

The Last Jedi will stand the test of time and pick up better appreciation as time goes. 

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Where in god's name did you get that idea from? They literally wrote the book on connected content with the MCU. 

No Joss Whedon  and to a lesser extent Kevin Feige wrote the book on the connected content, sure as hell not Disney execs who have direct control on the projects. Whedon was also the guy who wrote and directed the first two Avenger movies. Imagine that one guy who had a guideline but ultimately allowed to develop and direct all the major characters as a whole, leaving future directors their own source material and Fiege still around to make sure they dont just run off and do their own BS like Kennedy let Rian do. Not to say Disney did not have some success with other franchises when they did it right. Their best example being Pirates of the Caribbean. A series in which it had one main writer and director. And there was a coherent story. And guess what? The heroes and villains had depth and back stories.