CB Tre White to sign with Rams

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

Two things about that:

First - not being a household name does not mean someone is less talented. Kobie Turner played better than some of the guys on that list last year, for example. Byron Young had a very similar season to Will Anderson - do we just say Anderson is more talented because he was drafted higher? If that's the case then you really are asking who has the defense with the most highly drafted players.

Well, no. Byron Young, as many edge rushers have for LA, fed off of playing next to Aaron Donald. It’s been an ongoing formula for years. To back that up is his extremely low PRWR and his extremely low double team rate. Willie Anderson was near the top of the league in both categories, likely because A) he’s the better player, and B) he didn’t have a HOFer that drew 100% of the offense’s focus. Their PFF grades aren’t considerably comparable either (81.8 vs 63.5). 

As for being a household name, you’re correct. Not being a household name doesn’t mean you’re bad, which I said earlier.

9 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

Second - talent that plays poorly is a bad, bad, bad argument - it’s like the last  few years when Chargers fans always said they had a top 5 roster.

Who in that list of players has played bad? And I don’t mean “worse than their names would suggest”, I mean actually been a bad football player.

9 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

I cited the Rams players I cited for a reason - they are all "plus players" or "pro bowl caliber" players (whichever phrase you prefer). Here are the teams that I don't think have superior talent on defense than the Rams do (note the wording - I think a few of these teams are comparable):

Cardinals, Seahawks, Colts, Texans, Titans, Jags, Bengals, Bills, Patriots, Raiders, Broncos, Commanders, Giants, Bears, Vikings, Lions, Saints, Falcons, Bucs, Panthers

How are they pro bowl caliber when, pretty sure, none of them have been to pro bowls? The guys I mentioned are pro bowl caliber. Hell, being a FRP or sent to the pro bowl is pretty much how you get that nationwide notoriety, which is exactly what those guys don’t have. 

We can go through team for team, but there won’t be a meeting of the minds here. Most of those teams have legitimate star players on them, and to put the Rams in with or above those teams (especially the Bills, Bengals, Bears, Lions, Giants, Bucs, Raiders, Jags, and Titans) is nothing short of absolute homerism, tbqh. If you go through every level of the defense - DL, LB, DB - pretty sure those teams mop the floor with LA except for maybe the Raiders LBers and the Giants’ secondary.

Arizona and Indy’s I’d say are comparable, although I’d say Indy wins with their DL by a wide margin.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

I don't think it is an unfair take to question LA's defensive talent now that Donald is gone lol. Sure they have young players they hope will step up, but they just lost the GOAT DT and the anchor of their D who consistently soaked double and triple teams. It is possible their D will improve, but I have serious doubts based on what they have done so far. They need to hit big in the draft.

[FrantikRam]

2 hours ago, Soko said:

Well, no. Byron Young, as many edge rushers have for LA, fed off of playing next to Aaron Donald. It’s been an ongoing formula for years. To back that up is his extremely low PRWR and his extremely low double team rate. Willie Anderson was near the top of the league in both categories, likely because A) he’s the better player, and B) he didn’t have a HOFer that drew 100% of the offense’s focus. Their PFF grades aren’t considerably comparable either (81.8 vs 63.5). 

As for being a household name, you’re correct. Not being a household name doesn’t mean you’re bad, which I said earlier.

Who in that list of players has played bad? And I don’t mean “worse than their names would suggest”, I mean actually been a bad football player.

How are they pro bowl caliber when, pretty sure, none of them have been to pro bowls? The guys I mentioned are pro bowl caliber. Hell, being a FRP or sent to the pro bowl is pretty much how you get that nationwide notoriety, which is exactly what those guys don’t have. 

We can go through team for team, but there won’t be a meeting of the minds here. Most of those teams have legitimate star players on them, and to put the Rams in with or above those teams (especially the Bills, Bengals, Bears, Lions, Giants, Bucs, Raiders, Jags, and Titans) is nothing short of absolute homerism, tbqh. If you go through every level of the defense - DL, LB, DB - pretty sure those teams mop the floor with LA except for maybe the Raiders LBers and the Giants’ secondary.

Arizona and Indy’s I’d say are comparable, although I’d say Indy wins with their DL by a wide margin.

 

I mean if you're just falling back on being a household name or a first round pick, there's just no point in having this discussion. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if the Rams defense is bad.

The irony behind the PFF grades is that Turner was higher than Anderson and a better player last year - its a great example of what I was talking about.

Jones and Darious Williams were also graded pretty well - but none are "household names".

 

 

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

I mean if you're just falling back on being a household name or a first round pick, there's just no point in having this discussion. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if the Rams defense is bad.

I wasn’t the one that brought up the Rams having virtual no-names on defense, but yeah, that’s the part of the discussion I chimed in on. 

2 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

The irony behind the PFF grades is that Turner was higher than Anderson and a better player last year - its a great example of what I was talking about.

Still going to ignore the Aaron Donald point? The Rams defense was below average-to-bad statistically in 2023 with Donald. Why do you believe the team was so bad if they had 9 pro bowl caliber players + one of the GOATs? 

2 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

Jones and Darious Williams were also graded pretty well - but none are "household names".

Uh, yeah, I wouldn’t call either household names. Again, not nearly the insult you think it is.

[FrantikRam]

26 minutes ago, Soko said:

I wasn’t the one that brought up the Rams having virtual no-names on defense, but yeah, that’s the part of the discussion I chimed in on. 

Still going to ignore the Aaron Donald point? The Rams defense was below average-to-bad statistically in 2023 with Donald. Why do you believe the team was so bad if they had 9 pro bowl caliber players + one of the GOATs? 

Uh, yeah, I wouldn’t call either household names. Again, not nearly the insult you think it is.

 

I'm not saying that you're saying its an insult - its a huge flaw in your argument because those guys are probably roughly top 10 at their respective positions. Household name or not, they are talented players.

For 2023 the only players we had that I mentioned are Young, Turner, AD and Jones - and yes, AD/Jones/Turner were all pro bowl caliber last season, which makes sense given the rankings below since this defense was supposed to be dead last before the season started. We've now upgraded at CB and S and lost Donald, but also would expect Young and Turner to improve from year one to two. Here is where the Rams defense ranked last year, when everyone thought they'd be one of the worst in the NFL. The other aspect of comparing 2023 to 2024 is that we still have the draft, but I'll do it since you brought up 2023:

Yards per play - 18th

Rush yards allowed per play - 15th

Any/A for passing - 22nd

Yards allowed per game - 20th

Points allowed per game - 19th

 

So from there we lost Donald but have upgraded at safety, two CB spots and have two young pass rushers who should improve, AND we still have the draft coming up.

And when you look at those rankings, they all paint the same picture - that we had roughly the 20th best defense in the NFL last year.

Losing Donald will be a blow, but we have so much coming in and so many young players who will keep getting better that I expect the defense to be significantly better next season.

 

Now back to the point at hand though - those guys may not be "household names", but they are actually talented.

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

I'm not saying that you're saying its an insult - its a huge flaw in your argument because those guys are probably roughly top 10 at their respective positions. 

[El Ramster]

3 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I don't think it is an unfair take to question LA's defensive talent now that Donald is gone lol. Sure they have young players they hope will step up, but they just lost the GOAT DT and the anchor of their D who consistently soaked double and triple teams. It is possible their D will improve, but I have serious doubts based on what they have done so far. They need to hit big in the draft.

100% Will Anderson might have had 18 sacks playing next to Donald. Byron is really fast but super raw. Not to mention he was a 25 year old rookie which has diminishing returns. But he’s really really fast 😂 if our D is top 15 I’ll be super impressed. This team is gonna need to be carried by our offense and put up 30 every game..