Steeler board draft decision 2.59

[Chieferific]

44 minutes ago, jebrick said:

What I do not like about Sweat is his motor.  That is always the knock on him.  Do you need an NT like Hampton or one like Chris Hoke/Kessel. Fiske is a high motor 1 tech that would be closer to a 3 down player than Sweat ( IMHO).  Sweat is special but how long until he is a 2 down player?  Does he make it out of his rookie contract as a 3 down player?

Yeah, he is such a huge Man so you have to come to terms with him "taking plays off" and ask if that is that worthy of a top 60 pick.  But when he's in there teamed up with Benton/Ogun and Queen slicing in or getting to the outside, add a SS and that is a young core and a nightmare for Run Offenses. 

[AFF]

You know what…I’m going off the board to an extent.

Give me Sainristil for this pick.

[warfelg]

T’Vondre Sweat and Jordan Davis IMO are really similar. So if you were so ok with one in the 1st, why against the other in the 2nd so much?

[rlon]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

T’Vondre Sweat and Jordan Davis IMO are really similar. So if you were so ok with one in the 1st, why against the other in the 2nd so much?

I think the perception is that Jordan Davis is a much better athlete. If we select Sweat in the second or later, I am not complaining.

[MOSteelers56]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

T’Vondre Sweat and Jordan Davis IMO are really similar. So if you were so ok with one in the 1st, why against the other in the 2nd so much?

Davis is a lot lighter than Sweat. I don't think there was as much of a chance of Davis eating himself out of the league. And as @rlon mentioned, he was considerably more athletic than Sweat. Him not weighing at the Senior Bowl and then weighing 366 at the combine means he was probably 380 at the Senior Bowl. That's not ideal. 

[warfelg]

2 hours ago, rlon said:

I think the perception is that Jordan Davis is a much better athlete. If we select Sweat in the second or later, I am not complaining.

 

24 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Davis is a lot lighter than Sweat. I don't think there was as much of a chance of Davis eating himself out of the league. And as @rlon mentioned, he was considerably more athletic than Sweat. Him not weighing at the Senior Bowl and then weighing 366 at the combine means he was probably 380 at the Senior Bowl. That's not ideal. 

FWIW my Eagles fans friends are really disappointed in Davis and he has put on weight. He’s basically been what we think Sweat will be of blocker eating run stuffer. He’s been playing about 40% of snaps and hasn’t been making many plays on that. 
 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2024/1/4/24023271/eagles-jordan-davis-conditioning-is-being-called-into-question-defensive-tackle-pass-rush-struggles

My point being that Davis had some upside but it was unlikely to happen. He is what Sweat will likely be, so sticking up a nose at that in the second when some in the past wanted that in the first is kinda funny. 

[rlon]

FWIW my Eagles fans friends are really disappointed in Davis and he has put on weight. He’s basically been what we think Sweat will be of blocker eating run stuffer. He’s been playing about 40% of snaps and hasn’t been making many plays on that. Vvvvvvvv

And the Steelers would take him in a heart beat, immediately moving Benton to exclusive 3 and 5 tech duties, if we could. I've actually seen good things written about Davis, though I never discount the opinions of the true fans. There is something very wrong in Philly, culturally speaking, and I believe their time or window might be over. They are all excited about a running back that likely will miss a lot of time...I just have a feeling that Philly and Buffalo will be the two most disappointing teams in 2024.

[warfelg]

15 minutes ago, rlon said:

And the Steelers would take him in a heart beat, immediately moving Benton to exclusive 3 and 5 tech duties, if we could.

Then there’s the argument for Sweat being the pick. 

[rlon]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Then there’s the argument for Sweat being the pick. 

I’m with you on that. But, you know what could make taking Sweat a justifiable reality with the amount of picks we have and the likely part time nature of his role as a day 2 pick? Trading the most valuable and simultaneously replaceable component of our defense, Alex Highsmith, to give us another relatively early second day pick. Tough decision here, and I wouldn’t make it unless a major move up or a premium pick (or player) is available. That said, trade partners are pretty much limited to teams employing the 3-4 and moving their OLBs to the rush end spots in nickel and dime situations.
 

The starter replacement is there, depth is the issue. I know you’ll disagree with me here, and they would have to address depth in both the draft and free agency. But, Carl Lawson is still out there, to back up TJ, and there are some talented tweener athletes that will likely be there up until the 6th round. The Jets may not bring Lawson back, after recent moves. It would suck for the Steelers to give up a great locker room guy, but I think we’ve seen the AH ceiling, and I think Herbig’s, quite frankly, is higher. 
 

Imagine having the luxury of perfectly addressing both slot corner and NT relatively early? 5 picks could lead to DL, OL, DB, and WR all being adequately and throughly addressed. Or, we can focus on articles that stupidly suggest that Leal has any kind of trade value.

Edited March 31 by rlon

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, rlon said:

Trading the most valuable and simultaneously replaceable component of our defense, Alex Highsmith, to give us another relatively early second day pick

This would be very short sighted and would hurt much more than it would help. Highsmith has shown through player tracking to be one of the better pass rushers in the NFL. I know we got excited about Herbig but truth be told he’s a one speed pass rusher with little counter moves who made his plays on hustle. In 2022 Highsmith showed an ability to still produce with Watt out, something Herbig did not do in snaps played with Golden. 

On top of that because of our use of 4 man fronts, having Sweat in would make Highsmith even more of a threat off the edge. It would take pressure off Highsmith from having T/TE doubles to set the edge on the run because they were free to slide protection to TJs side with RT/RG knowing a C could stonewall Ogunjobi. 

I also and not a fan at all of shipping out a guy because you took a guy you don’t like the value of. Because 1, at pick 59 you aren’t going to get the proper Highsmith value (high 2nd at minimum using the Sweat trade as a template) so you are looking for a 2025 2nd for him. So that doesn’t help in this draft at all. And 2, you are taking away from one of our best assets (edge rushing) that can help cover for a weak part (DB) for the sake of it. Lastly 3, there’s almost no savings to trading Highsmith so what you end up doing is costing cap to make a positional group worse.

I think you are so high on one guy (Herbig) and almost disrespectfully low on another (Highsmith) that it’s clouting your judgement on this because you are literally trading him to trade him. 

[rlon]

I think you are so high on one guy (Herbig) and almost disrespectfully low on another (Highsmith) that it’s clouting your judgement on this because you are literally trading him to trade him. Vvvvvvv

 

Fair enough, but I wasn’t being disrespectful and I am not clouted so to speak…on the contrary, this is a player you love and overvalue. He’s your favorite player, no offense, as my equivalent to that would be Jaylen Warren. I think I am more objective with AH. He has an elite spin move and is solid against the run, nothing else screams top tier. He is replaceable, the blind side rusher upgradable. Solid citizen, no doubt, lots of positives, but he will never be an elite  OLB IMO. I think Herbig could become a bigger weapon/splash playmaker and less easy to keep in check during the course of a full game. I said the same for two years regarding James Harrison, and people vehemently disagreed because they were blinded for their love for Porter. I’ll agree to disagree and wait for history to prove out again. 

[43M]

I dont dislike Sweat, but I worry about his weight and motor.   

There arent many successful long term NTs that carry that kind of weight, and he slows down too much.   Part of that is probably conditioning, but I wouldnt classify him as "relentless".   

I suppose you could make the argument that he wouldnt be on the field a ton of snaps,  but in that case, why is he worth a 2nd round pick?

If we took him, I wouldnt be too upset, but Id absolutely take Corely over him right here.    Safer player by far.

[rlon]

1 minute ago, 43M said:

I dont dislike Sweat, but I worry about his weight and motor.   

There arent many successful long term NTs that carry that kind of weight, and he slows down too much.   Part of that is probably conditioning, but I wouldnt classify him as "relentless".   

I suppose you could make the argument that he wouldnt be on the field a ton of snaps,  but in that case, why is he worth a 2nd round pick?

If we took him, I wouldnt be too upset, but Id absolutely take Corely over him right here.    Safer player by far.

I would just offer that, as a Steeler fan, the last thing I want the Steelers to do is take someone to play the nose who really isn’t a nose tackle again. Get a true nose and let either Fehoko or Adams back him up. Benton is the future. 

[warfelg]

18 minutes ago, rlon said:

I would just offer that, as a Steeler fan, the last thing I want the Steelers to do is take someone to play the nose who really isn’t a nose tackle again. Get a true nose and let either Fehoko or Adams back him up. Benton is the future. 

Sweat is a true nose…

[jebrick]

18 minutes ago, rlon said:

I would just offer that, as a Steeler fan, the last thing I want the Steelers to do is take someone to play the nose who really isn’t a nose tackle again. Get a true nose and let either Fehoko or Adams back him up. Benton is the future. 

But do you need a true NT in the style of defense they are playing?  And is that worth a 2nd round pick vs picking up a fat body later?