2024 MOCK DRAFTS

[detfan782004]

1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said:

Schools will give better, more in-depth information to people they know and with whom they have a good working relationship.  If they don't know a scout or maybe the scout is a bit of a dirtbag, they aren't going to give them the same level of support.

lol okay. These schools want their players drafted high. They don't care if scouts are dirtbags if their kids get drafted high. You are reaching beyond reaching and digging a deeper hole.

This benefits the school in no way 

[detfan782004]

44 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMEr6JP_vYM

This is Lions scout, Scott Sika, on a conference call with Ohio State Sports Management students. He is discussing his work as a scout

SKILLS

1) Relationships: "Relationships are huge. That is the number one thing. We go into these schools, we're like investigators in a way. You're not just trying to figure out how the player is, how they learn, their background, if you can get medical. You just have to learn about the player 

2) Communication: You're travelling to different schools everyday

3) Trust: If they trust you and you build a relationship with them, that will help you get more information than the basic stuff they might give people

 

So what I gather from this is that the parties involved in this discussion are equally right and equally wrong. 

1) Film: Everyone is going to get access to film

2) Off-field: This is where the school visits seem to hold value 

I don't buy it. Of course they would claim they get more info but it doesn't help school at all.

School has regional Scout and gives him extra info. But keeps this info from A team that can take their player in round 1?

Yea right

College teams tout how many first rounders or NFL draft picks they have in NFL. They are not withholding info that is detrimental to their NFL draft records.

Thats hilarious though 

[Just Want A Title]

8 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

I don't buy it. Of course they would claim they get more info but it doesn't help school at all.

School has regional Scout and gives him extra info. But keeps this info from A team that can take their player in round 1?

Yea right

College teams tout how many first rounders or NFL draft picks they have in NFL. They are not withholding info that is detrimental to their NFL draft records.

Thats hilarious though 

You didn't buy that MCDC is a great coach or than Brad Holmes was a really good GM either.  You spent half of last year dogging the 2023 rookie class that ended up being regarded as one of the best in the league.  You "not buying it" is a good indicator that my assessment is correct.

[Sllim Pickens]

My last real mock draft using the composite rankings at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024

I for sure will keep playing around in the sims but I like using these rankings for a more "realistic" mock.  I won't draft anyone who is ranked more than 2 spots away from where the composite rankings have them.  

Pick 29 - Trade - Detroit sends 29 and 164 to Houston for picks 42, 86, and 123.  We net an extra third round pick and move from the 5th to the 4th.  Its slightly to our advantage on the updated TVC but getting into that late first and getting an extra year of control was worth it for HOU to add in the swap of 4th/5ths.  I did pass on Jackson Powers-Johnson here mainly because I like value elsewhere and I think adding another pick makes more sense.  I would not be mad at all taking JPJ though if we stay at 29. 

Pick 42 - Marshawn Kneeland - DE Western Michigan - I like adding some strength to the DL and Kneeland is my top guy available here.  He will push Paschal and add some extra pass rush opposite of Hutch.  

Pick 61 - Ruke Orohorho - DT Clemson - This is not a pick I love but the team seems to have shown a lot of interest in him.  He can play the Cominsky type role of swapping between DE and DT.  Solid player that again would hopefully add some much needed pass rush to our D line.  

Pick 73 - Trade - Detroit sends pick 73 to San Francisco for picks 94, 124, and 135.  This is actually a slight loss on our end but I like the late 3rd trough 4th rounds for value. 

Pick 86 - Kyhree Jackson - CB Oregon - We need to add some youth and talent to the CB room.  I love his size and ability to play man and zone.  He very well could back up Brian Branch in the S/CB role or have an arc similar to Iffy and move to S full time but either way I love his talent and think we will find a way to utilize him. 

Pick 94 - Javon Foster - OT Missouri - This is a reach according to the composite but this is where I feel some guys are undervalued.  Foster comes in and becomes a swing tackle and prepares for life after Decker.  

Pick 123 - Beaux Limmer - OC Arkansas - Limmer IMO will go in the top 3 rounds but based on the composite, he is available.  He will add great depth at OC and OG and could push Glasgow or Zeitler this year.  If Ragnow retires I would feel good about Limmer being next man up. 

Pick 124 - Elijah Jones - CB Boston College - Adding another young player to the mix at CB.  Jones has been rising as of late and its understandable.  Allowing a passer rating of 18.1 on 36 targets with 6 ints is impressive.  He is older and hopefully more ready to step in right away.  One of the best man coverage grades in the country per PFF.

Pick 135 - Sione Vaki - S Utah - We also need more depth at S.  As we noted during the year we got thin by the end of the season and Vaki fits the mold to take over for Kerby or at least be a solid backup.  

Pick  201 - Trevor Keegan - IOL Michigan - Adding additional depth to the OL is always good.  We need to cycle through and find the right depth guys that can fill in without a huge drop off so adding competition this late is always great. 

Pick 205 - Jalen Coker - WR Holy Cross - Thought about going WR earlier but love Coker and think he will turn into a steal.  At worst he pushes Green for the final WR spot to improve the depth.  

Pick 249 - Cam Little - K Arkansas - Self explanatory.  I think we bring in the kid from the Michigan Panthers for a workout but will be tough to make it.  Adding another K this late to add competition and potentially give us a K for the foreseeable future would be icing on the cake. 

[Karnage84]

7 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

I don't buy it. Of course they would claim they get more info but it doesn't help school at all.

School has regional Scout and gives him extra info. But keeps this info from A team that can take their player in round 1?

Yea right

College teams tout how many first rounders or NFL draft picks they have in NFL. They are not withholding info that is detrimental to their NFL draft records.

Thats hilarious though 

You don't buy the words that come directly out of the mouth of a guy that does this for a living? Talking to students who are asking him about his job and what's important?

The team sends out an 'Area Scout'. That Area Scout steps foot on campus, talks to people, asks questions, etc. They're driving to different schools every day. They're going to talk to all kinds of people (guidance counselors, equipment managers, coaches, teammates, etc.). The Area Scout collects information, prepares reports and then provides it to the Regional Scout. 

I know in my business that people will tell you things (or not tell you things) based on your relationship with them. Some teams might care about something while others don't. Some teams might have a way to handle a player's ability or inability to do something compared to another team. 

[detfan782004]

7 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

You didn't buy that MCDC is a great coach or than Brad Holmes was a really good GM either.  You spent half of last year dogging the 2023 rookie class that ended up being regarded as one of the best in the league.  You "not buying it" is a good indicator that my assessment is correct.

Never said MCDC was not good coach. Never once. I said he's a bad game manager. I never said Holmes wasn't good GM. I said Spielman deserves a lot of credit.

Speaking truth typically helps but hey....

 

if you believe scouts are not given information because they are not regional then I have ocean front property here in NE for ya. It's excellent value 

[detfan782004]

6 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

You don't buy the words that come directly out of the mouth of a guy that does this for a living? Talking to students who are asking him about his job and what's important?

The team sends out an 'Area Scout'. That Area Scout steps foot on campus, talks to people, asks questions, etc. They're driving to different schools every day. They're going to talk to all kinds of people (guidance counselors, equipment managers, coaches, teammates, etc.). The Area Scout collects information, prepares reports and then provides it to the Regional Scout. 

I know in my business that people will tell you things (or not tell you things) based on your relationship with them. Some teams might care about something while others don't. Some teams might have a way to handle a player's ability or inability to do something compared to another team. 

I know in scouting and sourcing line of business misinformation is first and foremost. So no I not buying everything a scout is saying. They are paid to mislead. I guess we should believe everyone we read leading up to draft because scouts are 100% honest. 
 

Read JJ is going #1 so it must be true because a scout said it.

Scouts are about as forthcoming with truth as media. lol 

[Just Want A Title]

30 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

My last real mock draft using the composite rankings at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024

I for sure will keep playing around in the sims but I like using these rankings for a more "realistic" mock.  I won't draft anyone who is ranked more than 2 spots away from where the composite rankings have them.  

Pick 29 - Trade - Detroit sends 29 and 164 to Houston for picks 42, 86, and 123.  We net an extra third round pick and move from the 5th to the 4th.  Its slightly to our advantage on the updated TVC but getting into that late first and getting an extra year of control was worth it for HOU to add in the swap of 4th/5ths.  I did pass on Jackson Powers-Johnson here mainly because I like value elsewhere and I think adding another pick makes more sense.  I would not be mad at all taking JPJ though if we stay at 29. 

Pick 42 - Marshawn Kneeland - DE Western Michigan - I like adding some strength to the DL and Kneeland is my top guy available here.  He will push Paschal and add some extra pass rush opposite of Hutch.  

Pick 61 - Ruke Orohorho - DT Clemson - This is not a pick I love but the team seems to have shown a lot of interest in him.  He can play the Cominsky type role of swapping between DE and DT.  Solid player that again would hopefully add some much needed pass rush to our D line.  

Pick 73 - Trade - Detroit sends pick 73 to San Francisco for picks 94, 124, and 135.  This is actually a slight loss on our end but I like the late 3rd trough 4th rounds for value. 

Pick 86 - Kyhree Jackson - CB Oregon - We need to add some youth and talent to the CB room.  I love his size and ability to play man and zone.  He very well could back up Brian Branch in the S/CB role or have an arc similar to Iffy and move to S full time but either way I love his talent and think we will find a way to utilize him. 

Pick 94 - Javon Foster - OT Missouri - This is a reach according to the composite but this is where I feel some guys are undervalued.  Foster comes in and becomes a swing tackle and prepares for life after Decker.  

Pick 123 - Beaux Limmer - OC Arkansas - Limmer IMO will go in the top 3 rounds but based on the composite, he is available.  He will add great depth at OC and OG and could push Glasgow or Zeitler this year.  If Ragnow retires I would feel good about Limmer being next man up. 

Pick 124 - Elijah Jones - CB Boston College - Adding another young player to the mix at CB.  Jones has been rising as of late and its understandable.  Allowing a passer rating of 18.1 on 36 targets with 6 ints is impressive.  He is older and hopefully more ready to step in right away.  One of the best man coverage grades in the country per PFF.

Pick 135 - Sione Vaki - S Utah - We also need more depth at S.  As we noted during the year we got thin by the end of the season and Vaki fits the mold to take over for Kerby or at least be a solid backup.  

Pick  201 - Trevor Keegan - IOL Michigan - Adding additional depth to the OL is always good.  We need to cycle through and find the right depth guys that can fill in without a huge drop off so adding competition this late is always great. 

Pick 205 - Jalen Coker - WR Holy Cross - Thought about going WR earlier but love Coker and think he will turn into a steal.  At worst he pushes Green for the final WR spot to improve the depth.  

Pick 249 - Cam Little - K Arkansas - Self explanatory.  I think we bring in the kid from the Michigan Panthers for a workout but will be tough to make it.  Adding another K this late to add competition and potentially give us a K for the foreseeable future would be icing on the cake. 

You found a good way to get Ruke Ohrorhoro into a mock which is awesome.  He is a very interesting prospect.  I haven't been able to get that to work.  That is the right range for Marshawn Kneeland and he is a good fit.  His upside is significant.  Javon Foster is solid and is from Detroit if I remember correctly.  Beau Limmer is good value as well.  As much as I like Khyree Jackson, I don't know if he is on the Lions draft board.  He had a bunch of problems at Alabama before his one starting year at Oregon. Still, he might have done enough at Oregon to get past that.  Nice work!

Edited April 22 by Just Want A Title

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, detfan782004 said:

Never said MCDC was not good coach. Never once. I said he's a bad game manager. I never said Holmes wasn't good GM. I said Spielman deserves a lot of credit.

Speaking truth typically helps but hey....

 

if you believe scouts are not given information because they are not regional then I have ocean front property here in NE for ya. It's excellent value 

Every team has Area Scouts. They are in 'the area' (Southwest, Northeast, Midwest, Southeast, etc.). Regional Scouts would be covering a Region (North/South) or (East/West). A National Scout would be broad based with a national outlook. 

The relationship that a college team and an NFL team might have would not be dependent on the location of the NFL team. However, to expect that the direct relationships between the Area Scouts and the college teams don't matter would also be disingenius. If you're on the ground and you're talking to people, there's a lot that you can learn. This is especially true based on your skill set in developing those relationships. 

The on-field stuff is probably across the board and they likely have access to the same film no matter what. 

The Lions don't have National Scouts. They likely rely on Holmes, Agnew, Spielman and Dorsey in those roles for the macro level. 

This is how the Bears have their front office structured. You can see that they have National Scouts along with very specific areas for the Area Scouts.:

• Breck Ackley Assistant Director of College Scouting
• Francis Saint Paul Sr. National Scout
• Sam Summerville Sr. National Scout
• Jeff Shiver Executive Scout
• Tom Bradway Northeast Area Scout
• Ryan Cavanaugh Midwest Area Scout
• Reese Hicks West Coast Area Scout
• Drew Raucina Midlands Area Scout
• Brendan Rehor Southeast Area Scout
• John Syty Southwest Area Scout
• Ryan Weese Combine Scout

[detfan782004]

2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Every team has Area Scouts. They are in 'the area' (Southwest, Northeast, Midwest, Southeast, etc.). Regional Scouts would be covering a Region (North/South) or (East/West). A National Scout would be broad based with a national outlook. 

The relationship that a college team and an NFL team might have would not be dependent on the location of the NFL team. However, to expect that the direct relationships between the Area Scouts and the college teams don't matter would also be disingenius. If you're on the ground and you're talking to people, there's a lot that you can learn. This is especially true based on your skill set in developing those relationships. 

The on-field stuff is probably across the board and they likely have access to the same film no matter what. 

The Lions don't have National Scouts. They likely rely on Holmes, Agnew, Spielman and Dorsey in those roles for the macro level. 

This is how the Bears have their front office structured. You can see that they have National Scouts along with very specific areas for the Area Scouts.:

• Breck Ackley Assistant Director of College Scouting
• Francis Saint Paul Sr. National Scout
• Sam Summerville Sr. National Scout
• Jeff Shiver Executive Scout
• Tom Bradway Northeast Area Scout
• Ryan Cavanaugh Midwest Area Scout
• Reese Hicks West Coast Area Scout
• Drew Raucina Midlands Area Scout
• Brendan Rehor Southeast Area Scout
• John Syty Southwest Area Scout
• Ryan Weese Combine Scout

Cool. Doesn't take from what I am saying 

[Karnage84]

10 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

I know in scouting and sourcing line of business misinformation is first and foremost. So no I not buying everything a scout is saying. They are paid to mislead. I guess we should believe everyone we read leading up to draft because scouts are 100% honest. 
 

Read JJ is going #1 so it must be true because a scout said it.

Scouts are about as forthcoming with truth as media. lol 

It was a Zoom meeting where he was presenting as an Ohio State Sports Management graduate speaking to two Ohio State Sports Management students about his experience in the program and the career he is involved in now. It had a very limited audience, which was OSU Sports Management students (current and future). 

This is professional football scouting not CIA deep cover operations. 

I've watched a video where Eloy was driving campus to campus for these types of meetings. I can't recall if it was "Inside the Den" or "Hard Knocks". I'm trying to find the video. 

Here's a video from the Browns "Building the Browns" series on the same topic. 

 

 

[detfan782004]

1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

It was a Zoom meeting where he was presenting as an Ohio State Sports Management graduate speaking to two Ohio State Sports Management students about his experience in the program and the career he is involved in now. It had a very limited audience, which was OSU Sports Management students (current and future). 

This is professional football scouting not CIA deep cover operations. 

I've watched a video where Eloy was driving campus to campus for these types of meetings. I can't recall if it was "Inside the Den" or "Hard Knocks". I'm trying to find the video. 

Here's a video from the Browns "Building the Browns" series on the same topic. 

 

 

Cool. Still doesn't take away from my point.

 

We will all have to agree to disagree. It's good to know schools harm themselves and withhold info from all teams and hurt their prospects: I learn something new daily. 
 

 

[detfan782004]

As far as mocks go I think the ideal situation Thursday is Lion fans sit there all day and Detroit doesn't pick.

Instead a day 2 pick after trade down and landing OC Frazier would be ideal.

With the line they really need to reinforce the depth with some young talent. 

[Karnage84]

Just now, detfan782004 said:

Cool. Still doesn't take away from my point.

 

We will all have to agree to disagree. It's good to know schools harm themselves and withhold info from all teams and hurt their prospects: I learn something new daily. 
 

 

Maybe they aren't withholding but instead aren't telling some teams while telling others. 

If a player is disrespectful to coaches or equipment staff, doesn't have good study habits, etc. they might not share that information with some teams (which would help the player and their draft position) while they might share with others (who could use that to take the player off their board). For a team like the Lions, I believe that stuff would matter. For some teams, they might not care. 

[Just Want A Title]

11 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

It was a Zoom meeting where he was presenting as an Ohio State Sports Management graduate speaking to two Ohio State Sports Management students about his experience in the program and the career he is involved in now. It had a very limited audience, which was OSU Sports Management students (current and future). 

This is professional football scouting not CIA deep cover operations. 

I've watched a video where Eloy was driving campus to campus for these types of meetings. I can't recall if it was "Inside the Den" or "Hard Knocks". I'm trying to find the video. 

Here's a video from the Browns "Building the Browns" series on the same topic. 

 

Awesome Post!  That is a pretty good look into some of what scouts do.

Edited April 22 by Just Want A Title