Sllim Pickens Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 12 hours ago, Karnage84 said: If those are my options then I would have to lean towards Verse. He'd be that true 4-3 Edge opposite of Aiden. I think it'd mean we would have to change up our scheme a little bit. Would it be subtraction by addition as we'd likely have to move Aidan to the SDE role since he has about 15 lbs on Verse. Would that hurt his production without a significant return? It's hard to say. It could mean a shift towards a 3-4 base but I don't know if we have the bodies on the Defensive Line for that either. Still, he's a really good player and we could find a way to make it work. I still think Robinson is the most natural fit but there are some lesser guys that offer some similar things like Ruke and Dorlus. The year before we ran Houston opposite Hutch for a stretch and both were productive. Its about requiring the other team to add extra blockers and having someone opposite Hutch who gets to the QB will require them to shift the blocking scheme. I am guessing the reason so much of Cominsky and Paschal were used last year is because of injuries and the decline of Okwara/Harris. I do agree that Robinson is the better fit to replace Cominsky but I think Verse adds more disruption which likely causes more blocking issues for opposing OL's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said: The year before we ran Houston opposite Hutch for a stretch and both were productive. Its about requiring the other team to add extra blockers and having someone opposite Hutch who gets to the QB will require them to shift the blocking scheme. I am guessing the reason so much of Cominsky and Paschal were used last year is because of injuries and the decline of Okwara/Harris. I do agree that Robinson is the better fit to replace Cominsky but I think Verse adds more disruption which likely causes more blocking issues for opposing OL's. You make a good point. A player like Jared Verse would stress an offensive line differently than Darius Robinson. I mocked Jalyx Hunt to the Lions later in the draft partly for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: The year before we ran Houston opposite Hutch for a stretch and both were productive. Its about requiring the other team to add extra blockers and having someone opposite Hutch who gets to the QB will require them to shift the blocking scheme. I am guessing the reason so much of Cominsky and Paschal were used last year is because of injuries and the decline of Okwara/Harris. I do agree that Robinson is the better fit to replace Cominsky but I think Verse adds more disruption which likely causes more blocking issues for opposing OL's. If we brought in someone like Verse, we could just tweak our defensive alignment to more of a wide-9 base. Paschal could have a bit more usefulness but Cominsky would be relegated more towards playing 3T on passing downs. If we wanted to change things up as opposed to upgrading a player in the same role, moving on from a guy who is on the last year of his contract would make for good timing. I like Verse as a player, I'd have no true complaints if he was to become a Lion. A concern that I have about him is his run defense. PFF has him graded at 65.3 (with a pass-rush grade of 90.8). Robinson has a run defense grade of 81.4 to pair with a pass-rus grade of 78.4. They do emphasize playing against the run and making offenses one dimensional. He doesn't offer quite as much juice as a pass-rusher but he offers enough without sacrificing against the run. Which is why I feel like schematically and philosophically Robinon makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: If we brought in someone like Verse, we could just tweak our defensive alignment to more of a wide-9 base. Paschal could have a bit more usefulness but Cominsky would be relegated more towards playing 3T on passing downs. If we wanted to change things up as opposed to upgrading a player in the same role, moving on from a guy who is on the last year of his contract would make for good timing. I like Verse as a player, I'd have no true complaints if he was to become a Lion. A concern that I have about him is his run defense. PFF has him graded at 65.3 (with a pass-rush grade of 90.8). Robinson has a run defense grade of 81.4 to pair with a pass-rus grade of 78.4. They do emphasize playing against the run and making offenses one dimensional. He doesn't offer quite as much juice as a pass-rusher but he offers enough without sacrificing against the run. Which is why I feel like schematically and philosophically Robinon makes more sense. I don't think it means Cominsky has to be relegated, it just means we have more versatility to change up schemes and keep defenses on their toes. Cominsky could spell Alim some but he could also stay on the edge at times when Verse is off the field. It keeps guys fresh and keeps defenses guessing. I feel like Robinson is the perfect early 2000's 3-4 DE but think his game speed will hurt as a 4-3 DE. We need pressure and the AG defense that has gotten the best pressure has been with Houston opposite Hutch. That was also the lowest PPG allowed stretch under AG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: We need pressure and the AG defense that has gotten the best pressure has been with Houston opposite Hutch. That was also the lowest PPG allowed stretch under AG I'd like to take a closer look at that and see how he was being utilized. It's a good point. Something to consider - Houston is still on the roster. So adding Robinson as Cominsky 2.0 and running back with Houston should give us that positional flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 11 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I'd like to take a closer look at that and see how he was being utilized. It's a good point. Something to consider - Houston is still on the roster. So adding Robinson as Cominsky 2.0 and running back with Houston should give us that positional flexibility. Houston is on an ERF deal this year and barely played last year so not sure how much they plan on him for the future. I sort of expect to find someone for that role at least as a backup/future replacement like Jalen Green but Verse would be even better. Although they tried to make Houston a true LB last year but wondering if that experiment will continue. But I think having a rush specialist who can sort of play the run will help us more than a run specialist who can sort of rush the passer. That being said, we do like making a strength stronger so keeping the run D great may be a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Quick mock from PFN; No trades My Draft Picks 29. Johnny Newton DT Illinois- Jer’Zhan is arguably my top DT in this draft, even over Byron Murphy. He can play both the pass and the run. He’s the DT I think Holmes and Campbell thought Onwuzurike was going to be. 61. Bralen Trice EDGE Washington- Trice is just productive. Returned to school last year because he felt he had unfinished business and just continued to produce. Would love him opposite Hutch. 73. Kamari Lassiter CB Georgia- I’ve been higher on Lassiter than most. His film is just solid top to bottom. He does everything well. I don’t think he has the boom/bust potential of most high end CBs, I just think he’ll be a solid starter for 8-10 years. 164. Qwan’Tez Stiggers CB Toronto (CFL)- I like Stiggers. He has upside. I don’t think he’s a day two pick. But day 3, I take the gamble, especially after taking Lassiter. Davis/Lassiter/Stiggers/Moseley with Branch/Robertson in the slot. That’s deep with talent. 201. Dylan McMahon OG NC State- I really like McMahon. I don’t know why he isn’t graded/mocked higher but I think he can be a starting guard in this league. Would love to develop him. 205. Tip Reiman TE Illinois- TE might not be a need with LaPorta as an all pro and Brock Wright signed for 3 years, but Reiman is good and can push Wright/Mitchell for TE2. Good blocker, good hands. 249. Frank Crum OT Wyoming- Developmental OT that can hopefully provide depth at T where we seem to lack depth. Top 4 picks go defense, double up at DL and DB. Last 3 picks go offense, and gain some OL depth for Fraley to coach up. Did not draft WR, just didn’t fall that way in this mock for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miblue Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Traded back a few times, likely my last mock. I think I came out of this pretty good 36 Jer'Zhan Newton DL | Illinois A 61 Ja'Lynn Polk WR | Washington A 73 Cooper Beebe IOL | Kansas State A+ 100 Kris Abrams-Draine CB | Missouri A+ 154 Audric Estime RB | Notre Dame A 155 Gabriel Murphy EDGE | UCLA A+ 164 Beaux Limmer IOL | Arkansas B+ 201 Tyrone Tracy Jr. RB | Purdue B+ 205 Tip Reiman TE | Illinois B+ 217 Josh Proctor S | Ohio State A+ 249 Marcus Rosemy-Jacksaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 Day 1 is in the books. Somehow we got one of the top 2 CB's in the mid-20's. 24 - Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama 61 - Braden Fiske, DL, Florida State: Fiske is highly athletic and can be a versatile piece as either a 3T or 5T. His lack of length (31" arms) could create some issues on the outside. 164 - Brennan Jackson, Edge, Washington State: Offers decent size (6'4, 264 lbs) and is a high motor, high character player. He was a team captain at Washington State. 201 - Sataoa Laumea, OG, Utah: Address the interior with a stout and versatile player (experience at RG and RT). 205 - Nehemiah Pritchett, CB, Auburn: He offers decent size (6'0, 190 lbs) and athleticism (4.36 40). The Lions have met with him with a Top 30 visit (Detroit was present at the pro day too). 249 - Anthony Gould, WR, Oregon State: A smaller but dynamic WR that offers a strong skillset on Special Teams. A succession plan for Kalif Raymond. UFA Jake Bates, K, Michigan Panthers (UFL): The Lions have an obvious need to address the kicker position. Bates has been solid while playing at Ford Field for the Panthers. Lions keep him in town. UDFA's Kedon Slovis, QB/WR, BYU: Slovis is an experienced QB with prototypical size. Much more athletic than given credit for. Could be in line for a position switch to WR Bub Means, WR, Pittsburgh: Offers decent size and athleticism. A developmental X-WR Walter Rouse, OL, Oklahoma: He played RT opposite of Tyler Guyton. Arguably in line for a position switch inside. His versatility is a plus Giovanni Manu, OL, British Columbia: Manu is a massive human (6'7, 352 lbs) and athletic (ran a 4.96). He's in line for a big change in competition. He has the physical skills to compete and could be a monster on the OL. He was a Top 30 visit for the Lions. There's a great opportunity for Manu to develop under Hank Fraley and there is a potential spot for him when Zeitler moves on. CJ Hanson, OC, Holy Cross: A small school prospect, adds more interior OL depth Evan Anderson, NT, Florida Atlantic: A bigger body at 6'1, 320 lbs. Adds depth behind Brodric Martin Judge Culpepper, 3T, Toledo: A smaller IDL in the mold of Fiske. He can play somewhat on the edge and on the inside. He was a Local Day visit Nate Lynn, Edge, William & Mary: A somewhat smaller prospct at 6'3, 2556 lbs, Lynn was highly productive with the second most sacks at the FCS level. He was a Lions Top 30 Visit. Lynn has a great opportunity to be an impact player in the Julian Okwara mold. He's also James Houston insurance. Lynn probably garners some extra money in order to bring him to Detroit. Braiden McGregor, Michigan: Aidan Hutchinson's successor. He'll come in to compete for the OLB/rush end role Javontae Jean-Baptiste, Edge/ILB, Notre Dame: Jean-Baptise is somewhat undersized at 239 lbs but gets a look at being moved inside to LB (like Derric Barnes). He's an athletic player that does offer some versatility and can be played on the edge in passing down situations (as we've seen the Lions do with Barnes at times). JD Bertrand, ILB, Notre Dame: A multi-year starter and team captain at Notre Dame. Special Teams/Developmental player to compete with Malcolm Kamal Hadden, CB, Tennessee: Grades well in man-to-man, decent size. Lions need to continue to add young talent to the secondary. Dwight McGlothern, CB, Arkansas: Grades well in man-to-man, decent size. Lions need to continue to add young talent to the secondary. Josh Wallace, SCB, Michigan: Wallace has potenial to come in as a slot CB or even a safety convert Isaiah Johnson, SCB/SS, Syracuse: Basically Iffy 2.0. Big body CB that will likely need to be moved. Adds depth to the safety room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 31 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Day 1 is in the books. Somehow we got one of the top 2 CB's in the mid-20's. 24 - Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama 61 - Braden Fiske, DL, Florida State: Fiske is highly athletic and can be a versatile piece as either a 3T or 5T. His lack of length (31" arms) could create some issues on the outside. 164 - Brennan Jackson, Edge, Washington State: Offers decent size (6'4, 264 lbs) and is a high motor, high character player. He was a team captain at Washington State. 201 - Sataoa Laumea, OG, Utah: Address the interior with a stout and versatile player (experience at RG and RT). 205 - Nehemiah Pritchett, CB, Auburn: He offers decent size (6'0, 190 lbs) and athleticism (4.36 40). The Lions have met with him with a Top 30 visit (Detroit was present at the pro day too). 249 - Anthony Gould, WR, Oregon State: A smaller but dynamic WR that offers a strong skillset on Special Teams. A succession plan for Kalif Raymond. UFA Jake Bates, K, Michigan Panthers (UFL): The Lions have an obvious need to address the kicker position. Bates has been solid while playing at Ford Field for the Panthers. Lions keep him in town. UDFA's Kedon Slovis, QB/WR, BYU: Slovis is an experienced QB with prototypical size. Much more athletic than given credit for. Could be in line for a position switch to WR Bub Means, WR, Pittsburgh: Offers decent size and athleticism. A developmental X-WR Walter Rouse, OL, Oklahoma: He played RT opposite of Tyler Guyton. Arguably in line for a position switch inside. His versatility is a plus Giovanni Manu, OL, British Columbia: Manu is a massive human (6'7, 352 lbs) and athletic (ran a 4.96). He's in line for a big change in competition. He has the physical skills to compete and could be a monster on the OL. He was a Top 30 visit for the Lions. There's a great opportunity for Manu to develop under Hank Fraley and there is a potential spot for him when Zeitler moves on. CJ Hanson, OC, Holy Cross: A small school prospect, adds more interior OL depth Evan Anderson, NT, Florida Atlantic: A bigger body at 6'1, 320 lbs. Adds depth behind Brodric Martin Judge Culpepper, 3T, Toledo: A smaller IDL in the mold of Fiske. He can play somewhat on the edge and on the inside. He was a Local Day visit Nate Lynn, Edge, William & Mary: A somewhat smaller prospct at 6'3, 2556 lbs, Lynn was highly productive with the second most sacks at the FCS level. He was a Lions Top 30 Visit. Lynn has a great opportunity to be an impact player in the Julian Okwara mold. He's also James Houston insurance. Lynn probably garners some extra money in order to bring him to Detroit. Braiden McGregor, Michigan: Aidan Hutchinson's successor. He'll come in to compete for the OLB/rush end role Javontae Jean-Baptiste, Edge/ILB, Notre Dame: Jean-Baptise is somewhat undersized at 239 lbs but gets a look at being moved inside to LB (like Derric Barnes). He's an athletic player that does offer some versatility and can be played on the edge in passing down situations (as we've seen the Lions do with Barnes at times). JD Bertrand, ILB, Notre Dame: A multi-year starter and team captain at Notre Dame. Special Teams/Developmental player to compete with Malcolm Kamal Hadden, CB, Tennessee: Grades well in man-to-man, decent size. Lions need to continue to add young talent to the secondary. Dwight McGlothern, CB, Arkansas: Grades well in man-to-man, decent size. Lions need to continue to add young talent to the secondary. Josh Wallace, SCB, Michigan: Wallace has potenial to come in as a slot CB or even a safety convert Isaiah Johnson, SCB/SS, Syracuse: Basically Iffy 2.0. Big body CB that will likely need to be moved. Adds depth to the safety room. If Hadden, McGlothern, and Wallace all go undrafted and end up in Detroit I would be shocked but would be ecstatic. I would love the draft if we land Fiske at 61 but don't see it happening. I like the UDFA more than Pritchett but given the interest from the Lions it wouldn't shock me if he was a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: If Hadden, McGlothern, and Wallace all go undrafted and end up in Detroit I would be shocked but would be ecstatic. I would love the draft if we land Fiske at 61 but don't see it happening. I like the UDFA more than Pritchett but given the interest from the Lions it wouldn't shock me if he was a target. I could see one happening (they go UDFA) more than the other (all wind up in Detroit). According to the consensus board, this is the list of guys who are +5 and - 5 from pick 61 Bold are guys they've met with: 56 - Marshawn Kneeland 57 - Cooper Beebe 58 - Max Melton 59 - Javon Bullard 60 - Ja'Lynn Polk 61 - Ja'Tavion Sanders 62 - Michael Hall 63 - Malachi Corley 64 - Junior Colson 65 - Christian Haynes 66 - Adisa Isaac Bonus 67 - Ruke Orhorhoro 68 - Patrick Paul 69 - Jaden Hicks 70 - Bralen Trice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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