Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, Captain Relax said: I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but...it's preseason...it's the Raiders. I will wait to see JJ's play during a game that counts before getting enthused. i mean there's nothing wrong with being excited and hopeful. This is, after all, mostly the same team that put up a 3-0 win against them last year in one of the most boring games I've ever witnessed in-person. Gotta remember...although he wasn't playing a lot of the Raiders starters all game, he didn't have Darrisaw, O'Neill, Addison, Jones, and Jefferson either. His protection was God awful on a few plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 5 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: His protection was God awful on a few plays What? Sure the protection was not perfect but the Raiders did have zero sacks and 2 QB hits all game. Compared to the Vikings getting 4 sacks and getting 8 QB hits during the game. The Vikings OL played well and protected well and guys like Jurgens and Rouse, their played helped McCarthy have time to take shots downfield. Which honestly was great to see because usually the Vikings have been a dink and dunk offense mostly, relying on YAC to get big plays downfield not taking deep aggressive shots. The Raiders outside of Jack Jones are pretty weak in terms of DBs. The starters are ok with Jones, Hobbs, Epps, Moehrig but the backups are beyond questionable so there is that also and most of the backups were in with McCarthy as well. They lost Robertson, Marcus Peters and David Long off last years team so they need to upgrade that backup DB core no question. So will be far more interesting to see JJ against better competition coming up against Cleveland and Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fobos Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 2 hours ago, Captain Relax said: I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but...it's preseason...it's the Raiders. I will wait to see JJ's play during a game that counts before getting enthused. There's a lot to be optimistic about, regardless of the setting. JJ's footwork looks better, he threw with good timing and touch for the most part, and he made some good plays in the deep game. We finally got to see a significant bit of what the team has been raving about. This was a confirmation of a lot of the camp hype, and it is pretty apparent JJ isn't another Kyries Hebert. He seems well on his way to becoming a productive starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 I am glad that JJ had a decent outing. However, other than helping coaches make roster decisions, preseason football is pretty worthless. Afterall, I remember Sloter being a stellar preseason quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Ozzy said: What? Sure the protection was not perfect but the Raiders did have zero sacks and 2 QB hits all game. Compared to the Vikings getting 4 sacks and getting 8 QB hits during the game. The Vikings OL played well and protected well and guys like Jurgens and Rouse, their played helped McCarthy have time to take shots downfield. Which honestly was great to see because usually the Vikings have been a dink and dunk offense mostly, relying on YAC to get big plays downfield not taking deep aggressive shots. The Raiders outside of Jack Jones are pretty weak in terms of DBs. The starters are ok with Jones, Hobbs, Epps, Moehrig but the backups are beyond questionable so there is that also and most of the backups were in with McCarthy as well. They lost Robertson, Marcus Peters and David Long off last years team so they need to upgrade that backup DB core no question. So will be far more interesting to see JJ against better competition coming up against Cleveland and Philadelphia. McCarthy was running for his life a couple times which don't qualify as hits or sacks. A couple times he did get the throw off, he got clocked. Raiders were consistently in the backfield against the run as well. One instance, he should have been sacked in the pocket but bounced off an ran for a few yards. The field goal team was absolutely dominated on the blocked FG attempt. I suppose you and I have different definitions of "fine." I guess I just don't understand your, or anyone elses, mindset of "Well, the Raiders didn't have this player or this player or this player" like you're actively trying to dismiss what McCarthy did with his supporting staff against the Raiders. Should people be saying "OMG! He's HIM! HOF!"? of course not but there was enough there to get excited for to the point where someone, like you, doesn't need to discredit his performance. It was a good showing for a 21-year-old rookie QB in his first NFL action. Will we learn more? Of course but I'm not going to sit here and dismiss what he did because it's pre-season. Edited August 11 by Vikes_Bolts1228 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 28 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: It was a good showing for a 21-year-old rookie QB in his first NFL action. Will we learn more? Of course but I'm not going to sit here and dismiss what he did because it's pre-season. exactly. no player can get batter without practice and reps. particularly a qb. he did well. preseason game? against a lighter opponent? you betcha. but how he performed under those "lite" circumstances is definitely a better outcome, and more encouraging, than if he had performed poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: McCarthy was running for his life a couple times which don't qualify as hits or sacks. A couple times he did get the throw off, he got clocked. Raiders were consistently in the backfield against the run as well. One instance, he should have been sacked in the pocket but bounced off an ran for a few yards. The field goal team was absolutely dominated on the blocked FG attempt. I suppose you and I have different definitions of "fine." I guess I just don't understand your, or anyone elses, mindset of "Well, the Raiders didn't have this player or this player or this player" like you're actively trying to dismiss what McCarthy did with his supporting staff against the Raiders. Should people be saying "OMG! He's HIM! HOF!"? of course not but there was enough there to get excited for to the point where someone, like you, doesn't need to discredit his performance. It was a good showing for a 21-year-old rookie QB in his first NFL action. Will we learn more? Of course but I'm not going to sit here and dismiss what he did because it's pre-season. Dismiss? Where did I dismiss it? You want to sit here and pretend the Raiders have as good of a backup DL, LB and DB group than the Browns and Eagles do? Well I would call BS on that all day long, that is the point. If you are not aware of backup players in the NFL and do not know them, sure join the club I guess with many others. But for those that do know, it is a totally different thing and different level going against the Browns and Eagles backup players. That is my opinion, disregard it if you wish but at least I know the players I am talking about. Alex Wright, Ogbo Okornokwo and Isaiah Thomas, easy quick example from the Browns alone. Those pass rushers will provide far more pressure than what the Raiders threw out there against McCarthy in Janarius Robinson, Charles Snowden and Elerson Smith, even if you throw in Tyree Wilson who did not play a ton when McCarthy was in. But Okornokwo and Wright alone both had almost what 10 sacks last year for the Browns in the regular season! Yeah the guys on the Raiders I spoke of, I believe 1 sack between all four of them. That is one of many big differences in competition. It was great JJ McCarthy played well no question, but it will mean way more to play good against real NFL talent that is on the higher end of things. The Browns and Eagles defensively have that, period. The Raiders do not, especially when you take out Crosby and Wilkins. What McCarthy does under real pressure matters, and you can call the Vikings pass pro bad or whatever against the Raiders, but to me he was not under near the pressure you think he was and honestly it is nothing compare to what it can be in the NFL. By the way the Vikings ran for what 142 yards, 6.5 yards a carry on only 22 carries. So that is getting totally crushed on the OL? Vikings do that against the Eagles or Browns, then yes it does mean quite a bit more in my book in regards to preseason preparation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Super impressive for McCarthy to put up 188 yards on only 17 passes compared to what happened today with another QB. Trey Lance 25-41 for 188 yards and 6 carries for 44 yards. The WRs he was passing to, nothing great, Jalen Brooks young guy but Kelvin Harmon was surprised to see him he has not played in the NFL since 2019 and Deontay Burnett has not played in the NFL since 2020. I like them both and glad they are getting another shot but yeah that has been a long while. Durden also was in there, Moreno-Cropper an interesting slot type from Fresno State and even Spann-Ford former Gopher TE etc. More importantly what defense did Lance go up against. Well that is an extremely well coached defensive unit for the Rams and even though they were backups a ton of solid players. Tyler Davis the rookie looked good at DT, Hummel at LB looked like a future starter, super solid at that LB spot. Speights the rookie looked solid as well, got a ton of quality safeties, Jaylen McCollough who at times as a total star on Tennessee and is a rookie, fell in the draft because of off the field stuff. Real star is Kitchens at safety, that dude is legit, Tanner Ingle made a few plays. Zach VanValkenburg is legit off the edge and consistently provided pressure almost the entire time he was in. Josh Wallace looked tough at CB, have Tre Tomlinson as well who can move in the slot very well, Shaun Jolly who is up and coming with good slot ability, also had Nick Hampton on the other edge giving good pressure etc. Compare that to the Raiders, not even the same thing in terms of the backup defenders especially in the secondary and in terms of the team culture. Rams have a very meticulous hard working culture and it shows with their toughness and attention to detail. Also have drafted extremely well the past few seasons and seems like most of their guys really know their role and know how to play tough smart football. Now does that mean Trey Lance is good to go after this performance, of course not. Just shows difference in competition level and who is around you as your supporting cast. Crazy thing is Trey Lance is the same age as Bo Nix and Michael Penix right now. Now who had better weapons, McCarthy with Jackson, Nailor and Sherfield. That is a clear win and who played against a better secondary, no question Trey Lance did with worse weapons than McCarthy had. Also would argue the pressure Lance faced was better more quality consistent pressure against better players than the Raiders backup front 7. Rams did get 3 sacks and 8 QB hits to show it, against a super athletic and big QB in Trey Lance... It is only a preseason game but one has to go off of who is played against, and it will mean far more when McCarthy plays against soon to be much better defensive players, backups or not. Oh and look who caught that first big pass in Trey Lance's career. The dude can play and I hope the Vikings keep him, might have to keep only 3 TEs to keep 6 WRs but we will see, would be nice to keep Jackson and Sherfield and maybe Powell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjfja_fkdldjs Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 11 hours ago, Captain Relax said: I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but...it's preseason...it's the Raiders. I will wait to see JJ's play during a game that counts before getting enthused. Why? Will it hurt to enjoy the moment? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 11 hours ago, Captain Relax said: I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but...it's preseason...it's the Raiders. I will wait to see JJ's play during a game that counts before getting enthused. i like the rain. and parades. so why not enjoy them together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ozzy said: Dismiss? Where did I dismiss it? You want to sit here and pretend the Raiders have as good of a backup DL, LB and DB group than the Browns and Eagles do? Well I would call BS on that all day long, that is the point By the way the Vikings ran for what 142 yards, 6.5 yards a carry on only 22 carries. So that is getting totally crushed on the OL? Vikings do that against the Eagles or Browns, then yes it does mean quite a bit more in my book in regards to preseason preparation. LOL bruh....when did I say ANYTHING about the Browns and Eagles? You're creating an argument that isn't there.... What do the Browns and Eagles have to do with absolutely anything that happened with JJ McCarthy yesterday? JJ McCarthy, unless I missed something, has never played the Browns and Eagles. Maybe you're thinking of Madden? I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. Maybe one too many beers for Ozzy today? As I said...it's a pre-season game. I enjoyed it and I got excited by our rookie QB. I dearly apologize I'm not spending my weekend breaking down the Raiders' depth chart so I can come to a forum and say "Well, technically JJ only played OK due to the Raiders 2nd string unit being among the worst 2nd string units so far this training camp." If you want to spend your Sunday trying to qualify his performance by the power rankings of the Raiders secondary from 2 weeks of training camp and go down the stats for 4th string players for the Raiders....go for it....I'm going to enjoy a hell of a performance from our rookies whilst you look up the stats for the Raiders' 3rd string LBs for your next dissertation on Raiders football. Edited August 12 by Vikes_Bolts1228 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 22 minutes ago, sjfja_fkdldjs said: Why? Will it hurt to enjoy the moment? It'S oNlY pRe-SeAsOn! Duh! Can't get excited about anything until the regular season. Dontcha know? Getting excited for rookie QBs are for other, less sophisticated teams like Chicago, Denver, Washington, and New England! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 13 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: LOL bruh....when did I say ANYTHING about the Browns and Eagles? You're creating an argument that isn't there.... What do the Browns and Eagles have to do with absolutely anything that happened with JJ McCarthy yesterday? JJ McCarthy, unless I missed something, has never played the Browns and Eagles. Maybe you're thinking of Madden? I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. Maybe one too many beers for Ozzy today? As I said...it's a pre-season game. I enjoyed it and I got excited by our rookie QB. I dearly apologize I'm not spending my weekend breaking down the Raiders' depth chart so I can come to a forum and say "Well, technically JJ only played OK due to the Raiders 2nd string unit being among the worst 2nd string units so far this training camp." If you want to spend your Sunday trying to qualify his performance by the power rankings of the Raiders secondary from 2 weeks of training camp and go down the stats for 4th string players for the Raiders....go for it....I'm going to enjoy a hell of a performance from our rookies whilst you look up the stats for the Raiders' 3rd string LBs for your next dissertation on Raiders football. You can have your opinion and view, that is fine. I just question it massively because you really seem to have no idea who the players are going up against. Maybe I am totally wasting my time or maybe I am actually familiar with all of the players I have brought up. You watch the game and like JJ McCarthy completing passes, that is great. Who he is completing passes against and who he completes passes to matters in how he ultimately looks. And instead of just "enjoying" the game I try to think a little deeper about it and have the prospect base to know who he is going up against. Sure not all of the guys I know but a large majority of them I do. You can pretend I am just reading box scores and saying random names, no I have watched all the players I mention in college or in the pre draft process or in previous preseason competition or NFL competition. If that is a waste of time to you, I do not care. I bring up the Browns and Eagles because originally you said who cares about who he goes up against with the Raiders as if that is not the point when to me it is absolutely the point. The Raiders have suspect backups that are not a great bench mark of competition. It is preseason and he will be going up against backups but there is a big difference between backups of two top 10 teams in the league and backups for the rest. Same thing can be said for JJ McCarthy in college, what he does against Ohio State obviously matters far more in showing his potential and overall ability at the next level than what he does against Indiana in a down year with a coach that was later fired at the end of the season and replaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Ozzy said: You can have your opinion and view, that is fine. I just question it massively because you really seem to have no idea who the players are going up against. Maybe I am totally wasting my time or maybe I am actually familiar with all of the players I have brought up. You watch the game and like JJ McCarthy completing passes, that is great. Who he is completing passes against and who he completes passes to matters in how he ultimately looks. And instead of just "enjoying" the game I try to think a little deeper about it and have the prospect base to know who he is going up against. Sure not all of the guys I know but a large majority of them I do. You can pretend I am just reading box scores and saying random names, no I have watched all the players I mention in college or in the pre draft process or in previous preseason competition or NFL competition. If that is a waste of time to you, I do not care. I bring up the Browns and Eagles because originally you said who cares about who he goes up against with the Raiders as if that is not the point when to me it is absolutely the point. The Raiders have suspect backups that are not a great bench mark of competition. It is preseason and he will be going up against backups but there is a big difference between backups of two top 10 teams in the league and backups for the rest. Same thing can be said for JJ McCarthy in college, what he does against Ohio State obviously matters far more in showing his potential and overall ability at the next level than what he does against Indiana in a down year with a coach that was later fired at the end of the season and replaced. Yeah...sorry. Just don't care about the Raiders 4th string LBs and DBs. Cool that you do and I'm impressed! I wish I could find the time to breakdown every team's 2nd-4th string DBs and LBs. The kid did good. Don't care if it's against Nnamdi Asamoah or Chuck Stank or whomever the 7th string Raiders FS is. You can play that "He only looked good because _________." for 17 games every season. If you want to do it pre-season week 1 and downplay a 21 year-old rookie's first game action and be pessimistic because you have the time to watch the tape on an AFC West team's backups, I guess that's up to you! Edited August 12 by Vikes_Bolts1228 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWG VIKE Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 The same logic can be used for JJ, he was throwing to 2nd and 3rd stringers. I say it was a great outing no matter who he was going up against. Even if it was a high school football team, his technique and touch was great to see. Yes we need to see it again better competition but it was definitely a performance to build on for his confidence alone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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