The Bears-Offense

[Epyon]

1 hour ago, CBears019 said:

What’s going on with Roschon Johnson?  Surprise inactive week 1, no mention of injuries that I’ve seen, active last night, but no plays that i recall.  Is he in the doghouse for something?  Our run game needs all the help it can get, may as well try the guy we spent a 4th(?) on a year ago.

I don't think Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, or Derrick Henry could run behind this line the way the blocking has been.

Unironically, Rookie Tarik Cohen might be the only chance of success, and that'd be ENTIRELY off backyard football type scrambles.

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

Swift isn't an every down guy, and right now he's worse than Herbert

I was skeptical of the Swift trade from the start. He made his bones running behind Detroit and then Philly's offensive lines (both of whom are among the league's best when we're literally the worst in the NFL right now -=BY FAR=- ), and only once did he put up workhorse numbers (with the Philly OL).  He has usage as a receiving back with some explosion, but that should mean getting him on check downs, or ensuring good perimeter blocking.  He would have thrived in Trestman's offense with  BMarsh, Martellus Bennet, and Alshon Jeffery..... but this isn't that.

I'd much much rather have thrown a bag of cash at Saquon (who proved himself running behind the NYG dumpster fire).... but even then it would have meant nothing without punting on the Odunze pick and trading down for OL help (graham Barton or Zach Frazier both look like absolute studs at center right now, for example)

On that note, not to be harsh, but Odunze isn't playing ANYWHERE near his draft status right now. He doesn't need to be an all pro, but like... learn the damn playbook/route tree..... catch the damn ball. He's got more miscues + drops than contributions right now.

[Epyon]

18 minutes ago, JibjeResearch said:

unless you want to add Kramer at C lolz

At this point, it can't be worse. At the very least, as he's a former Illini, I'd be more trusting of his mental game.  Shelton is getting beaten both physically and mentally right now.

18 minutes ago, JibjeResearch said:

How about this...  put Pryor at LG and Jenkins at RG.  I think this would do for now

This and start rotating Bill Murrey in during practice. I don't want anyone in that OL room thinking their job is remotely safe right now.

Edited Tuesday at 12:35 AM by Epyon

[chisoxguy7]

9 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

If there's anything reassuring about Caleb in weeks 1-2 it's that the things he's screwing up are things he doesn't normally screw up.  From all accounts he started camp being inaccurate and sloppy and improved, so there's reason to have some hope his clock slows down and the throws start landing. 

I love the idea of a trade, but have NO idea who that would be for, and NO idea how long they take to come along. Then again,  Shelton might be so poor that any replacement is improvement. 

I don't get Jenkins,  I would say when healthy he's often the best OL, and if he's not hurt now what gives?

I have to imagine a trade would be for an impending free agent. 

There are a few intriguing names on the list. Miami is in some cap trouble next year, and with Tua maybe done for the year, perhaps they look to trade one of Eichenberg or Robert Jones. I would be surprised if they retain both. Jacksonville could look to get something for Cam Robinson or Walker Little, but they're both tackles by trade. Perhaps one would be able to play guard. Not sure we'd be players for Robinson given his suspension history.

2025 NFL Free Agents (spotrac.com)

[soulman]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:18 AM, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t think it’s either of those things at all. I think he just struggles under pressure. He’s hardly the first super athletic guy who has a hard time when the lights come on. Were he not highly overdrafted in round 3 we would’ve dismissed this as the typical such case that it is a while ago. 

He's 27 years old and has been playing football in major college programs for at least 5 years before he was drafted primarily as a return specialist. He's played two years here primarily as a KOR.

That's 7 seasons of NCAA Div I and NFL experience and yet this guy still hasn't figured out the kind of discipline he needs to succeed at this level?  AZ, his problem isn't the lights in the stadium it's those in his head that get switched off.  He lacks the maturity to fix his own problems even when he realizes what they are.

I'd love to see the kid succeed but he's at a level now where his speed and size aren't enough to carry him.  I'd wish I was wrong but my belief is no matter where we put this guy he will not be a consistent performer.  He'll thrill us with a big play one game then fumble at a bad time the next.  He lacks the maturity of an NFL pro.

He's never gonna make us forget Devin Hester or become whatever Poles believed he could be when he drafted him.  If he can get a 4th for him trade him and let some other team try to find out how to make his brain function like it should.  We lost out.

[soulman]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:18 AM, dll2000 said:

Well to have a muff under new kick off rules is hard.  That one by Velus may be only one in NFL all year.  Fumbles sure, but muffs?  No.  Even if you don’t catch it clean you can still gather it or let it go to end zone.  The odds of him both muffing it and kicking it to other team are incredible, but they happened.  Maybe God just has other plans for him.  

I'll stick with my position on him.  He's not all that bright and for a 27 year old with at least 5 years NCAA experience and returner and 2 years NFL experience as the same he still lacks the maturity to execute like he should.  He still plays like and inexperienced rookie and he's not shown any real improvement in two years either.

He knows what at least some of his problem is.  He can verbalize it but he can't fix it. I saw the look on his face as he left the field after that muff.  It was a "damn I phuc'd up again" look.  I didn't see the look of a player determined never to let that happen again.  It's almost like he expects it because that's what always happens to him.

I was hoping he'd gotten past all of it but he hasn't and from the look of it he won't.

[StLunatic88]

15 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

You make a good point, but it's still going to be hard for even one plus player to carry two guys who are playing poorly.

Bates is so interesting, as clearly their scouts see something useful there, but I've just never seen it.  

I'm really curious to see what changes either personnel or scheme wise on the OL next week.  I think we're in "change something, anything!" territory right now so hopefully they try something productive. 

Oh Bates wouldnt be the only change Id make, but also make no mistake, I dont see him as some Superman at Center, he should just be competent. If we can just have someone who isnt blown up every other play and isnt sitting in Caleb's lap all the time, it should let the offense actually happen

But as far as this week, you just cant keep running Nate Davis out there. Pryor or Murray, I dont care, you have to try something else. How many plays did he just not block anyone? There was one where he has 2 chances, and didnt block either.

Dont get me wrong, Shelton is a problem too, but Id have to imagine that Davis is making it harder on him as well. And honestly, throw Kramer out there at Center, Id be shocked if he was worse at this point,

Poles may have to start pulling a Brad Pitt/Moneyball where in the movie he just started shipping off players so the "correct" ones were played. But in this situation, Waldron seems to be leaning on the guys he knows (Everett/Homer/Shelton) instead of the better players.

[JibjeResearch]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Oh Bates wouldnt be the only change Id make, but also make no mistake, I dont see him as some Superman at Center, he should just be competent. If we can just have someone who isnt blown up every other play and isnt sitting in Caleb's lap all the time, it should let the offense actually happen

But as far as this week, you just cant keep running Nate Davis out there. Pryor or Murray, I dont care, you have to try something else. How many plays did he just not block anyone? There was one where he has 2 chances, and didnt block either.

Dont get me wrong, Shelton is a problem too, but Id have to imagine that Davis is making it harder on him as well. And honestly, throw Kramer out there at Center, Id be shocked if he was worse at this point,

Poles may have to start pulling a Brad Pitt/Moneyball where in the movie he just started shipping off players so the "correct" ones were played. But in this situation, Waldron seems to be leaning on the guys he knows (Everett/Homer/Shelton) instead of the better players.

I think if we put Pryor at LG and Jenkins at RG, this will solve the lack-of-power issue at the RG.  Then if we find ways to help Shelton be better, the line will be better.

I think that line up will stop/slow down the DTs from pushing the IOL to the QB.

I also read (I could be mistaken) somewhere that Chris Morgan is also the rushing coordinator....  May be the double duty is kicking hisAss???

[dll2000]

19 minutes ago, JibjeResearch said:

 

I also read (I could be mistaken) somewhere that Chris Morgan is also the rushing coordinator....  May be the double duty is kicking hisAss???

Bang up job on run game.  

This is what it feels like to be on national TV when nothing is working.  Feels bad man.  I used to not sleep coaching 12 year olds with just parents watching.  I can't imagine what that is like.  Stress has to be incredible.  Pray for him.  

 

[dll2000]

Bill has a point.

In hindsight right now, it looks like Bears needed to use #9 on OL via a pick or trade down and then OL.  

Or preferably have been more aggressive in FA one of last two years, particularly at C position which would have better allowed the Odunze pick.  

I wanted Odunze, so I can't say I would have done different in draft in real time.  And time may still prove that to be right move.   It's just right now we can't adequately protect.  

If you look at just how many OL were drafted early it shows the position needs help across NFL.

 

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Bill has a point.

Bill was a bad drafter and an average GM at best, why are we suddenly all groveling at his feet like he was some magician with the 53 man roster?

He was great with his defense and got lucky as hell with Tom Brady

We can absolutely have the debate about where we should have gone differently with the roster allocation, but its not as simple as "get more lineman". 

I was all about Olu Fashanu, but would you have taken him over Rome? I dont think many would have, and you werent trading back and getting him. Plus then you had to believe that Braxton was someone you wanted to slide inside to guard, and I know nearly none of you believed that. Because after that, there isnt alot of high upside OL in the First. And at the time had we picked a Guard over Rome, there would have been some very upset people

And sure, you could have spent more in FA, but the Guard market is out of control, and He believed he got a Center in Bates (who is now hurt). Could he broke the bank for Cushenberry? I guess but that seems like an over pay to me if he even wanted to come to Chicago.

They are clearly setting this up to get the Lines solidified next offsesson, and you can absolutely disagree with that. But they took the gamble that they could patch work the line one season, and seemed to like what is coming down the pipe to gamble on next year. 

[dll2000]

18 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Bill was a bad drafter and an average GM at best, why are we suddenly all groveling at his feet like he was some magician with the 53 man roster?

He was great with his defense and got lucky as hell with Tom Brady

We can absolutely have the debate about where we should have gone differently with the roster allocation, but its not as simple as "get more lineman". 

I was all about Olu Fashanu, but would you have taken him over Rome? I dont think many would have, and you werent trading back and getting him. Plus then you had to believe that Braxton was someone you wanted to slide inside to guard, and I know nearly none of you believed that. Because after that, there isnt alot of high upside OL in the First. And at the time had we picked a Guard over Rome, there would have been some very upset people

And sure, you could have spent more in FA, but the Guard market is out of control, and He believed he got a Center in Bates (who is now hurt). Could he broke the bank for Cushenberry? I guess but that seems like an over pay to me if he even wanted to come to Chicago.

They are clearly setting this up to get the Lines solidified next offsesson, and you can absolutely disagree with that. But they took the gamble that they could patch work the line one season, and seemed to like what is coming down the pipe to gamble on next year. 

I was thinking more of going real hard for Ethan Pocic when he was a FA and resigned with Browns.  I think that was 2 years ago.  

But I don't have time to really know all different possibilities or what I would have done with full information and time.

As for Bill, yes maybe he was a bad drafter and GM and a weird boyfriend, but doesn't mean he can't have a valid point.  We have valid points sometimes.  What is our resume?  Not as good as Bill's.  

He was good enough at roster construction to have multiple SB teams.

Anyone can have a bad or good point no matter who they are.  How is that determined?  By how much it agrees with my opinion.  

 

[StLunatic88]

8 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

As for Bill, yes maybe he was a bad drafter and GM and a weird boyfriend, but doesn't mean he can't have a valid point.  We have valid points sometimes.  What is our resume?  Not as good as Bill's.  

He absolutely can, it wasnt necessarily directed at you, but people are blowing him every chance they get, and to me he still just comes off as the crusty old man he was in every interview while he was a coach

[dll2000]

9 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

He absolutely can, it wasnt necessarily directed at you, but people are blowing him every chance they get, and to me he still just comes off as the crusty old man he was in every interview while he was a coach

There was this guy who was a village prosecutor.  He was such a Richard in court.  He made doing even simple easy deals way harder than they needed to be.  He was rude and mean and very short with defense attorneys.  Just like Belichick was with media.   Very entertaining though when you weren't dealing with him directly and someone else was.  He didn't even care what judges said.  

I used to prosecute some days on same day as him and watch him do his thing.  

I thought how can he can go through life like this?  Just being a Richard all the time.

Turns out it was an act.  A persona he adopted so people wouldn't approach him for deals - but that was their job so it never really stopped.  So I still don't get it.  

He became a judge and was a completely different guy.  Very fair.  Very good judge.  Everybody liked him when he became a judge.

Maybe for Belichick it wasn't an act.  Maybe he is just a strange guy.  Him dating that young lady at his age was kind of a weird move.  More eccentric than you would expect.  

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Bang up job on run game.  

This is what it feels like to be on national TV when nothing is working.  Feels bad man.  I used to not sleep coaching 12 year olds with just parents watching.  I can't imagine what that is like.  Stress has to be incredible.  Pray for him.  

 

Nate Shelley better spill on what's going on there

[dll2000]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

There was this guy who was a village prosecutor.  He was such a Richard in court.  He made doing even simple easy deals way harder than they needed to be.  He was rude and mean and very short with defense attorneys.  Just like Belichick was with media.   Very entertaining though when you weren't dealing with him directly and someone else was.  He didn't even care what judges said.  

I used to prosecute some days on same day as him and watch him do his thing.  

I thought how can he can go through life like this?  Just being a Richard all the time.

Turns out it was an act.  A persona he adopted so people wouldn't approach him for deals - but that was their job so it never really stopped.  So I still don't get it.  

He became a judge and was a completely different guy.  Very fair.  Very good judge.  Everybody liked him when he became a judge.

Maybe for Belichick it wasn't an act.  Maybe he is just a strange guy.  Him dating that young lady at his age was kind of a weird move.  More eccentric than you would expect.  

That guy died in chambers earlier this year btw.  Right before his court call.  Baliff found him.  

He died after getting his dream job though.  He was very happy after he became a judge.