The Bears-Offense

[soulman]

On 9/19/2024 at 9:49 AM, dll2000 said:

In my experience typically best scout of a player is his former coach.   Don't just go off film (which was good). 

We had to pick new teams from a large group of kids every year.  I would always go and talk to their former coaches when I could.  And if the guy was a good coach and not a tool or had an agenda, he was always right in his assessment.   Coaches spend a lot of time with players during a season.   

Most won't publicly say anything bad, but behind closed doors I think they will often tell you.  Unless they are trying to trade him.  

Vrabel didn't like him.  

Davis would be player number two where Poles spent heavily either with a draft pick or cap money on a failed vet prospect.  In both cases the teams who drafted these guys were happy to get rid of them.

I realize we had a desperate need for both when we acquired them but I sincerely hope Poles days of looking at mid grade players for help is over.  Especially when it comes to lineman on either side of the ball either go big or go home.

It's the price you pay when you draft or coach poorly and your lineman don't measure up.  With the talent we have at QB and skill positions we can't afford an OL the leaks like a sieve in pass protection and they do.

In trading for Allen he got value.  While his injury history is somewhat annoying his production despite that made him well worth the price.  Poles should recover the 4th from Pitt from the Fields trade.  Bates for 5th was another worthwhile trade.

 

[dll2000]

25 minutes ago, soulman said:

Davis would be player number two where Poles spent heavily either with a draft pick or cap money on a failed vet prospect.  In both cases the teams who drafted these guys were happy to get rid of them.

I realize we had a desperate need for both when we acquired them but I sincerely hope Poles days of looking at mid grade players for help is over.  Especially when it comes to lineman on either side of the ball either go big or go home.

It's the price you pay when you draft or coach poorly and your lineman don't measure up.  With the talent we have at QB and skill positions we can't afford an OL the leaks like a sieve in pass protection and they do.

In trading for Allen he got value.  While his injury history is somewhat annoying his production despite that made him well worth the price.  Poles should recover the 4th from Pitt from the Fields trade.  Bates for 5th was another worthwhile trade.

 

I don’t know that you can truly make an Oline equal to a good NFL dLine.   The talent and athletic differential is too much.

But I have a deceased friend who was an Oline coach.  And he had a lot of great sayings.  When I said something like that to him, he would respond, “That’s true, but their jobs are different.  I can’t play guitar like Eddie Van Halen, but I can probably disrupt his guitar playing.”  

Why did Oline protect better in 2nd half? I posit it is because Bears were running ball downhill with power plays.  That changes the way you play dLine.  When I am straight rushing forward all I have to do is juke this fat guy or slap his hands away while he tries to stay in front of me.  When a fat guy is charging at me and I am responsible for a gap I have to anchor and control that gap.  I can’t just go wherever I want to go to get around him.   If I am worried about him coming forward hard and downhill, it limits my pass rush style get off.  

Trap blocks, cuts, screens and option blocks have similar effects.  Different styles of blocks slows frontline defenders down.  That is how you beat superior athletes.

And further, dLinemen have to chase a lot and that is hard for big men.  That is why Caleb wanted to go no huddle so much.  It doesn’t allow them to rotate out, when they are gassed they don’t rush great.  

Bears did a lot more of all of above in last game.  Shame it took until week 4 for Waldron to do it.  Let’s hope he remembers it.  

And I hope he lets Caleb play fast a lot more, he clearly wants to.

[JibjeResearch]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don’t know that you can truly make an Oline equal to a good NFL dLine.   The talent and athletic differential is too much.

But I have a deceased friend who was an Oline coach.  And he had a lot of great sayings.  When I said something like that to him, he would respond, “That’s true, but their jobs are different.  I can’t play guitar like Eddie Van Halen, but I can probably disrupt his guitar playing.”  

Why did Oline protect better in 2nd half? I posit it is because Bears were running ball downhill with power plays.  That changes the way you play dLine.  When I am straight rushing forward all I have to do is juke this fat guy or slap his hands away while he tries to stay in front of me.  When a fat guy is charging at me and I am responsible for a gap I have to anchor and control that gap.  I can’t just go wherever I want to go to get around him.   If I am worried about him coming forward hard and downhill, it limits my pass rush style get off.  

Trap blocks, cuts, screens and option blocks have similar effects.  Different styles of blocks slows frontline defenders down.  That is how you beat superior athletes.

And further, dLinemen have to chase a lot and that is hard for big men.  That is why Caleb wanted to go no huddle so much.  It doesn’t allow them to rotate out, when they are gassed they don’t rush great.  

Bears did a lot more of all of above in last game.  Shame it took until week 4 for Waldron to do it.  Let’s hope he remembers it.  

And I hope he lets Caleb play fast a lot more, he clearly wants to.

Yes, CW making changes at the line was great.  Also, KramerJr at FB was awesome.  We need more power plays like that.  This is a physically game.  Pushing them backward is the name of the game.  It's just basic football.

[soulman]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don’t know that you can truly make an Oline equal to a good NFL dLine.   The talent and athletic differential is too much.

I'm not actually comparing them.  What I meant is that at this point in time if Poles plans on adding vet talent to either line I feel he should be willing to spend the money on top tier talent as he did with Sweat.  More so on the OL than the DL.

By next season we should be far enough along in the development of prior draft picks to fill whatever holes may be left with better vet talent than we've generally done so far.  That's all.  We don't seem to be good enough on the OL to put a mid tier player in and have him be a difference maker.  It's gonna take more than that.

It may be less critical for DL.  Because of the rotation we play paying top dollar to another DL may be out of reach.  There I'd like to see how well the DL performs this year and what the top draft prospects look like.  What we could really use is another Akiem Hicks in his prime type.

[JibjeResearch]

I will assume Jenkins is out.

I hope the staffs will let Davis, Pryor, and Amegadjie compete for the 2 guard spots.

the Bears have to play them in a real game to see who is better.

I want to see more KramerJr as the FB.  He will open big hole for the RBs.

[AZBearsFan]

21 hours ago, JibjeResearch said:

I want to see more KramerJr as the FB.  He will open big hole for the RBs.

Curious whether that was just a thing because Blasingame was down. Plus, once Bates is back (possibly after this week) I don’t think Kramer will be active. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

45 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Curious whether that was just a thing because Blasingame was down. Plus, once Bates is back (possibly after this week) I don’t think Kramer will be active. 

As far as I could tell, Blasingame was recovered, but inactive last week.  If this is correct then they made the choice to FB Kramer instead of him.  I thought it was actually pretty effective, so am curious to see what they do going forward.  This team really needs every edge it can generate in the run game. At this point I would be coating all the RBs in teflon and hoping no one notices. 

[malak1]

22 hours ago, JibjeResearch said:

I will assume Jenkins is out.

I hope the staffs will let Davis, Pryor, and Amegadjie compete for the 2 guard spots.

the Bears have to play them in a real game to see who is better.

I want to see more KramerJr as the FB.  He will open big hole for the RBs.

Is Amegadjie even an option this early? 

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

As far as I could tell, Blasingame was recovered, but inactive last week.  If this is correct then they made the choice to FB Kramer instead of him.  I thought it was actually pretty effective, so am curious to see what they do going forward.  This team really needs every edge it can generate in the run game. At this point I would be coating all the RBs in teflon and hoping no one notices. 

The Kramer/FB thing seemed to be only a Goaline or Short yardage package. He wasnt out there lining up in the backfield on regular plays. But Everett did seem to often motion back there, which I also liked to see. Im fine if Blasingame is a gameday scratch, he has seemingly fallen behind in his usefulness

1 hour ago, malak1 said:

Is Amegadjie even an option this early? 

If he's dressing he has to be an option at some level. How good they feel about that right now though is a complete mystery. I honestly think hes just an Emergency Tackle, and thats probably after Pryor is being used elsewhere.

[JibjeResearch]

5 hours ago, malak1 said:

Is Amegadjie even an option this early? 

He's a 3rd rounder.  He better be useful when healthy.. lolz ahahah😁

He has to play in a real game to know how suck he is lolz🤣

Edited Friday at 07:48 PM by JibjeResearch

[JibjeResearch]

6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Curious whether that was just a thing because Blasingame was down. Plus, once Bates is back (possibly after this week) I don’t think Kramer will be active. 

KramerJr is quick....  If he can catch... hell yeah I would try him at FB full time.

He should take every chances given to him... anywhere on the field.

Edited Friday at 07:50 PM by JibjeResearch

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, JibjeResearch said:

He's a 3rd rounder.  He better be useful when healthy.. lolz ahahah😁

He has to play in a real game to know how suck he is lolz🤣

I agree to a point, but I think he was drafted earlier due to long-term potential rather than being immediate help. I also don't do twitter or anything though so IDK if he has been getting work at both T and G either though, maybe he has been getting to work against Billings and Dexter. If he can come out as competitive vs those two then he should be able to handle inside physically, just has to be able to be cohesive with the others. 

The amount of mental gaffes from the veterans in particular is insane this year. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

15 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I agree to a point, but I think he was drafted earlier due to long-term potential rather than being immediate help. I also don't do twitter or anything though so IDK if he has been getting work at both T and G either though, maybe he has been getting to work against Billings and Dexter. If he can come out as competitive vs those two then he should be able to handle inside physically, just has to be able to be cohesive with the others. 

Wanted to say the exact same thing.  If not injury some OL room probably pushes to get him the 2nd based on traits and measurables.  Even if not hurt he strikes me as a guy who needs to sit and develop for a while. 

15 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

The amount of mental gaffes from the veterans in particular is insane this year. 

I don't get it. I know offense was down across the league and penalties were up but the Bears do not have the horses to overcome that many penalties a game. 

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Wanted to say the exact same thing.  If not injury some OL room probably pushes to get him the 2nd based on traits and measurables.  Even if not hurt he strikes me as a guy who needs to sit and develop for a while.

I don't get it. I know offense was down across the league and penalties were up but the Bears do not have the horses to overcome that many penalties a game. 

I might just be a downer when it comes to Morgan, but it seems that the longer most players are with him the more they regress, maybe with Leno being the exception last year (he got absolutely bent over by Verse for a large chunk of the game though, so maybe he isn't the exception anymore?).

Jenkins came out hot when he was healthy at G, he has been bad. Davis was solid his last year in TEN and has been crap since coming here. Whitehair's decline was precipitous. Wright was better as a rookie. Shelton was apparently at least average last year (from what I have read here, I can't remember him at all). Mustipher was atrocious here and while far from good was better in BAL last year. Patrick was trash here and my buddy says he is one of the best in NO right now on their OL.

So, maybe it is better if KA gets on the field so Morgan doesn't have time to concentrate on ruining him in practice? lol Really though, I want the best 5 on the field at once, but they have to be healthy at the same time to do that. This also means they might not be the best individual talents, but maybe Pryor's experience helps him be the best RG for the OL. IDK, but I hope they improve soon otherwise Williams is going to be running for his life like he was the first two games.

[dll2000]

7 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I might just be a downer when it comes to Morgan, but it seems that the longer most players are with him the more they regress, maybe with Leno being the exception last year (he got absolutely bent over by Verse for a large chunk of the game though, so maybe he isn't the exception anymore?).

Jenkins came out hot when he was healthy at G, he has been bad. Davis was solid his last year in TEN and has been crap since coming here. Whitehair's decline was precipitous. Wright was better as a rookie. Shelton was apparently at least average last year (from what I have read here, I can't remember him at all). Mustipher was atrocious here and while far from good was better in BAL last year. Patrick was trash here and my buddy says he is one of the best in NO right now on their OL.

So, maybe it is better if KA gets on the field so Morgan doesn't have time to concentrate on ruining him in practice? lol Really though, I want the best 5 on the field at once, but they have to be healthy at the same time to do that. This also means they might not be the best individual talents, but maybe Pryor's experience helps him be the best RG for the OL. IDK, but I hope they improve soon otherwise Williams is going to be running for his life like he was the first two games.

It has been upsetting that all our guys have really regressed this year thus far from what we have seen of their personal best.  

Could be injuries or whatever, but it sucks to have so many people having either a down year or being hurt all at once.  

Braxton was embarrassingly bad last week.  Just outclassed.