Chiefs WR Rashee Rice under investigation for hitting photographer

[iknowcool]

12 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

Though I do believe several organizations would have cut Rice already. 

Which ones?  We see this play out time after time and it usually plays out the same way regardless of the team. I bet you could go down the list of every major sports team in the country and find one example of them hanging on to a player that they "should have" cut.  Just last year Jalen Carter did the same thing as Rashee Rice, except his racing actually did result in a death, and he went in the top 10.  I know for Rice it is starting to go beyond that, but still.

And is there any reason for the Chiefs to cut him now?  We aren't at the point of OTAs yet, much less training camp.  Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong/not entirely correct but I would guess it is better for the Chiefs financially to have Rice be punished by the league first before they do anything.  

If anything I bet there are teams that would gladly hand over a conditional late-round pick to have Rice on the team.

Edited May 11 by iknowcool

[General Tso]

Usually this is when you'd say "by god that's Sky Moore's music"

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

Which ones?  We see this play out time after time and it usually plays out the same way regardless of the team. I bet you could go down the list of every major sports team in the country and find one example of them hanging on to a player that they "should have" cut.  Just last year Jalen Carter did the same thing as Rashee Rice, except his racing actually did result in a death, and he went in the top 10.  I know for Rice it is starting to go beyond that, but still.

Jalen Carter though would have gone higher though. Teams took him off their board which allowed Philly to get him later. The Lions just cut Cameron Sutton for his DV incident. And also passed on Carter the prior year. So the Lions imo would be an example. 

I never said every team, obviously if Rice is cut some team would sign him. There are worse guys than him in the league. But teams would/and have passed on talent due to character flaws. Ironically, Jalen Carter is a perfect example for it. I'm glad Carter isn't on my team either. 

[INbengalfan]

Ray Rice

Rashee Rice

 

No wonder Brendan Rice fell so far in the draft

[BobbyPhil1781]

On 5/7/2024 at 5:06 PM, Soko said:

While he’s out on bond lol

Lol I don't know why I laughed at this so hard

[nicfre2011]

5 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Lol I don't know why I laughed at this so hard

Same here!

[iknowcool]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:11 PM, LeotheLion said:

Jalen Carter though would have gone higher though. Teams took him off their board which allowed Philly to get him later. The Lions just cut Cameron Sutton for his DV incident. And also passed on Carter the prior year. So the Lions imo would be an example. 

I never said every team, obviously if Rice is cut some team would sign him. There are worse guys than him in the league. But teams would/and have passed on talent due to character flaws. Ironically, Jalen Carter is a perfect example for it. I'm glad Carter isn't on my team either. 

If Jalen Carter somehow fell to the 2nd round, you think the Lions would have passed on him? 

And how soon did the Lions release Cameron Sutton after he was first sought by the police?  He wasn't turning himself in.  Had he turned himself in from the jump, who knows what the Lions do.  Also, the Lions had somewhat of an incentive to release Cameron Sutton (what incentive do the Chiefs have to release Rice?).  They invalidated his guaranteed salary.  Sutton is also just a slightly above average (at best) corner and will be 30 years old in 2025.  I'm sure that helped make the decision easier.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/lions-release-cameron-sutton

Quote

UPDATE 4:19 p.m. ET: Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the Lions did indeed invalidate Sutton’s guaranteed salary for 2024 before releasing him.

And what exactly is Jalen Carter the perfect example for?  His street racing led to multiple injuries and someone dying.  And he still went in the top 10.  Sure, I reckon he could have gone higher, but if being involved in an incident that leads to someone's death only drops you 3-5 spots in the draft, what does that tell you?

And Carter isn't the only example of teams taking talent over anything else.  The Ravens stuck with (and would have continued to) Ray Rice until the video became public.  Panthers went as far as to play Greg Hardy after all his stuff came out, and the only reason anyone cared or took notice about his situation is because of Ray Rice.  A lot of teams pursued Deshaun Watson, there were 3-5 serious candidates by the end but apparently at least 10 teams reached out or inquired at one point.  Do the Texans even move on from Watson if he never asked to be traded to begin with? 

Everyone wants to think their team wouldn't do the same thing every other sports team has always done, until it happens to their team.  I'm not saying the Lions want bad people on their team.  I don't think any NFL team wants that.  But I'm not convinced that they won't make the decision that is best for their team, just like every other team always has.

Edited May 13 by iknowcool

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

If Jalen Carter somehow fell to the 2nd round, you think the Lions would have passed on him? 

Do you know what it means to be off a team's board? Yes.

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

And how soon did the Lions release Cameron Sutton after he was first sought by the police?  He wasn't turning himself in.  Had he turned himself in from the jump, who knows what the Lions do. 

Yes because Rice sprinted straight to the police station after his incident to turn himself in.

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

And what exactly is Jalen Carter the perfect example for?  His street racing led to multiple injuries and someone dying.  And he still went in the top 10.  Sure, I reckon he could have gone higher, but if being involved in an incident that leads to someone's death only drops you 3-5 spots in the draft, what does that tell you?

Carter's incident is different than Rice's. But my claim was never every team would cut Rice. I said several. Carter falling in the draft is proof of it. He was considered the best defensive player in the class and teams with major needs there passed on him.

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

Everyone wants to think their team wouldn't do the same thing every other sports team has always done, until it happens to their team.  I'm not saying the Lions want bad people on their team.  I don't think any NFL team wants that.  But I'm not convinced that they won't make the decision that is best for their team, just like every other team always has.

That's your prerogative. I'm not even a Lions fan, I just think they are a very good example of a team that has clearly passed on talent in positions of major needs when the players clearly have major legal/character issues. I don't think the Chiefs want "bad" people on their team either. Why would anyone? But, I don't think it is a coincidence that it is usually a similar collection of teams that have these issues. It shows what teams prioritize over others. 

Edited May 13 by LeotheLion

[Jakuvious]

59 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Yes because Rice sprinted straight to the police station after his incident to turn himself in.

Rice was not wanted by the police for a good chunk of time after the story broke. He did turn himself in once charges were filed and there was something to turn himself in for. Sutton waited 3 1/2 weeks to turn himself in after the arrest warrant was issued. The Lions, in that time, told him directly to turn himself in, and he continued to not do so. They then cut him after 2 weeks of him avoiding custody. Had Rice done that, KC likely would have cut him, similar to when they cut Kareem Hunt for not cooperating with the team when he was under investigation.

 

Like, I'm not interested in defending Rice the person, at this point. He's clearly, at best, an idiot. I hope he can learn and become a better person, and stop causing collateral damage while he does so. But he has clearly been a danger to himself and others.

But acting like any NFL team has moral high ground here is incredibly naive. Like, if this was Jamhyr Gibbs or Sam LaPorta, no chance the Lions would've cut them at this stage. Hell, last year, when 4 Lions got busted for gambling, how did the Lions handle it? Did they stand by all 4 guys, given that it was a relatively minor offense comparably? Did they cut all 4 since they're a moral franchise that doesn't tolerate character issues? No. They cut the 3 guys that weren't very good and kept Jameson Williams lmao. If they don't tolerate that behavior, wouldn't they cut all 4? If they're not that concerned, wouldn't they keep all 4? No, just like every other team, they're just weighing if the talent is worth the headache, and decided it only was in one of the cases. No team is morally superior, they're all the same.

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, LeotheLion said:

Do you know what it means to be off a team's board? Yes.

And what evidence/source can you provide that shows the Lions removed him from their draft board?

They still met with him after the incident. The Lions GM said they felt better about him after their meeting. Was he lying? Maybe, but I’m not finding anything that suggests the Lions passed on him because he wasn’t on their draft board. If the Lions were that morally opposed then why meet with him anyway?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/36245667/lions-gm-says-felt-better-jalen-carter-visit

And agree to disagree but saying a guy “fell” when he went 9th overall is just a huge stretch to me. That’s not a fall. Especially when 3 of the 8 players ahead of him are QBs. He just didn’t go as high as you thought he would. 

Edited May 13 by iknowcool

[LeotheLion]

26 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Hell, last year, when 4 Lions got busted for gambling, how did the Lions handle it? Did they stand by all 4 guys, given that it was a relatively minor offense comparably? Did they cut all 4 since they're a moral franchise that doesn't tolerate character issues? No. They cut the 3 guys that weren't very good and kept Jameson Williams lmao. If they don't tolerate that behavior, wouldn't they cut all 4? If they're not that concerned, wouldn't they keep all 4? No, just like every other team, they're just weighing if the talent is worth the headache, and decided it only was in one of the cases. No team is morally superior, they're all the same.

I get that this isn't your team, but you clearly are ignorant on this. They cut the guys that were gambling on NFL games. They kept the guys that were in trouble for betting on other sports at the team facilities. Those are clearly different issues that did and should carry different punishments. 

If the bolder was the case, then why is it that some teams continually seek out these people? Tyreek Hill, Rashee Rice, Frank Clark, William Gay, Britt Reid, etc...is it just bad luck or are some teams purposely avoiding these players/coaches? I would 100% argue with the latter and it's not coincidental. 

Edited May 13 by LeotheLion

[LeotheLion]

4 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

And what evidence/source can you provide that shows the Lions removed him from their draft board?

They still met with him after the incident. The Lions GM said they felt better about him after their meeting. Was he lying? Maybe, but I’m not finding anything that suggests the Lions passed on him because he wasn’t on their draft board. If the Lions were that morally opposed then why meet with him anyway?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/36245667/lions-gm-says-felt-better-jalen-carter-visit

I mean, why not interview him to get his side of the story? There's no harm and they didn't draft him which is clearly the point. Here's a link from Albert Breer reporting that 2 teams took him off the board 3 weeks prior to the draft. I don't know if the Lions were one of those teams. But they've outwardly said they put an emphasis on character and most crucially their actions since Holmes/DC have taken over have proven that is a true statement.   

https://brobible.com/sports/article/jalen-carter-off-draft-boards/

[LeotheLion]

28 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

And agree to disagree but saying a guy “fell” when he went 9th overall is just a huge stretch to me. That’s not a fall. Especially when 3 of the 8 players ahead of him are QBs. He just didn’t go as high as you thought he would. 

And why is that? Is it because teams really thought his issues are too much to spend the #3 or #6 pick on him but #9 is okay or was other that some teams ahead so "no, we don't want this problem"? Because if that is the case, my whole premise is correct that some teams just don't really care about anything but talent and others do. 

You had asked would the Lions have passed on Carter in round 2. If he's off the board then yes but it's sort of a pointless question because there's no scenario where Carter would make it to round 2. I don't know the number of teams that would have picked Carter had he fallen to the teens or 20s. I'd guess over half would have jumped at that opportunity. So my argument isn't a few teams are the bad guys, I understand what the majority of teams would do there. 

Edited May 13 by LeotheLion

[iknowcool]

8 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

And why is that? Is it because teams really thought his issues are too much to spend the #3 or #6 pick on him but #9 is okay or was other that some teams ahead so "no, we don't want this problem"? Because if that is the case, my whole premise is correct that some teams just don't really care about anything but talent and others do. 

Let’s clarify some things. One, when you say “some teams,” you really are just referring to 4 teams. Panthers, Texans, and Colts were never going to take him over their QB/Will Anderson. Second, this all started because you said several teams would cut Rashee Rice. My point with Carter was that if even he can go top ten, then Rice wouldn’t get cut off a team he’s already on.  Taking a guy in the top 5 is a whole lot different than keeping a guy who’s already on your team. And I feel confident that any of those teams that “passed” on Carter would gladly take him in the 2nd. Which is why the Eagles took him when he did.

And then this is the part you ask me if I understand what it means to be off a teams draft board, when even you say you don’t really know.

[iknowcool]

33 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Tyreek Hill, Rashee Rice, Frank Clark, William Gay, Britt Reid, etc...is it just bad luck or are some teams purposely avoiding these players/coaches?

The same Hill who was pursued by the Jets and Dolphins? The same Clark who was drafted by the Seahawks? The same Gay who plays for the Saints now?