AP names Gardner Minshew starting QB

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Would it help you if you looked at him as a WR?

I've asked you several times what player specifically you would have drafted at 13. You still giving a cop out answer of "I don't have time to evaluate college football players" or are you simply waiting for a player to pop up to point at?

 

Pay me 5M a year to evaluate talent and I will give you specific players.  I don't watch college football because it's an inferior form of football, just like I don't watch minor league baseball instead of MLB of PFL instead of UFC.  I have said numerous times I would have been ok with a slight trade up if a QB slipped and we had two within striking distance but didn't make a move.  I would have also been ok with a trade back for a top CB or OT.  I assure you one of the OT or CB's picked behind us will prove to be good value. 

Bowers is not a WR, he's a TE.  He is 6'3 245.  Show me one elite WR at 250lbs in todays NFL...   

 

[Geezy]

11 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I have no clue why you're saying the pick doesn't need to be defended unless you're implying he is a sure fire stud who will produce on the level of Gronk, Kelce or Gonzo.  

We have a 23 year old 2nd rounder on the roster from last year at a position that historically does not produce at a high level. You say it's insane that the pick needs to be defended and I say please explain to me how the pick makes sense (2 TE's in the first two round in back to back years) unless Bowers produces at the level I have mentioned in previous posts.

Do you understand that two TEs can be on the field at the same time? Do you realize 12 personnel is now our base offense? Players can line up in different spots. It’s not like Bowers and Mayer are sharing snaps. You’re posting like having two young talented TEs limits the Raiders when in reality it makes them more versatile. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

Just now, Geezy said:

Do you understand that two TEs can be on the field at the same time? Do you realize 12 personnel is now our base offense? Players can line up in different spots. It’s not like Bowers and Mayer are sharing snaps. You’re posting like having two young talented TEs limits the Raiders when in reality it makes them more versatile. 

In the history of the NFL show me one time where two TE's have produced at a high level outside of one year with Gronk and Hernandez....  Let's not forget they had Brady throwing them the ball too not the Minchew.  Mayer is now a backup and will produce like one.  So much for all that baby Gronk talk lol 

Where is Mayer in the current pecking order?  He is behind Adams, Meyers, Tucker, Bowers and White so he's the 6th option playing with a Qb we all hope can throw for 25TD's this year and not turn the ball over at a high rate...  He will produce like a backup. 

[Styrian Raider]

7 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Do you understand that two TEs can be on the field at the same time? Do you realize 12 personnel is now our base offense? Players can line up in different spots. It’s not like Bowers and Mayer are sharing snaps. You’re posting like having two young talented TEs limits the Raiders when in reality it makes them more versatile. 

He came up with "what if Mahomes gets injured and the Chiefs has the #1 pick - should they draft a QB?" - so basically he doesn't understand that.

[Frankie2Gunz]

9 hours ago, NickButera said:

Maybe was lined up as TE always while Bowers was just moved around everywhere,  I believe I recall them mentioning even he was in the backfield once, but Im not certain. 

And yea, closest thing I can think of is Deebo. I don't know of any TEs that have been used that way, ever. 

I love Deebo's swiss army knife game and would have loved to see him in his prime on the Raiders.  He is a baller.

Deebo is 6'0 215, Bowers is 6'3 245.  They are not the same type of player.  

[big_palooka]

8 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Pay me 5M a year to evaluate talent and I will give you specific players.  I don't watch college football because it's an inferior form of football, just like I don't watch minor league baseball instead of MLB of PFL instead of UFC.  I have said numerous times I would have been ok with a slight trade up if a QB slipped and we had two within striking distance but didn't make a move.  I would have also been ok with a trade back for a top CB or OT.  I assure you one of the OT or CB's picked behind us will prove to be good value. 

Bowers is not a WR, he's a TE.  He is 6'3 245.  Show me one elite WR at 250lbs in todays NFL...   

 

You don't watch college football, but are not above punching down on others opinions of players who do? Very odd and on brand. 

Bowers is why you should watch college football. If you did, then maybe you could add something to the conversation instead of being simple and arguing value because they drafted a TE last year which is, lazy for someone who tells everyone else "they don't know ball". 

If you watched college football, you'd see Bowers catching the ball over the field. Only 44.7% of Bowers snaps came from ture TE alignment. Bowers is LISTED as a TE, but can line up outside, wing, slot (818 snaps in college) and the backfield (5 rushing TDs). It's an indicator of versatility, athleticism, skill set. He moves like WR. His route running and body control mimic an elite WR. He averaged more YAC that Nabors, Harrison Jr. and Odunze in college. 

If you want to quantify him, just call him a football player. In the NFL, you are what defenses treat you as. If they want to lineup LBs on him, he will have an advantage. If they cover him with DBs, it opens up everything for the play caller. 

Bottom line:

Draft the player, not the position. That's how you build great teams. With great players. Not great "value".  

[big_palooka]

5 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I love Deebo's swiss army knife game and would have loved to see him in his prime on the Raiders.  He is a baller.

Deebo is 6'0 215, Bowers is 6'3 245.  They are not the same type of player.  

I could show you how Bowers is essentially a bigger Deebo Samuels, but I don't think you're emotionally ready for that conversation. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

I could show you how Bowers is essentially a bigger Deebo Samuels, but I don't think you're emotionally ready for that conversation. 

Show me in 5 years with his production not with college highlights of him running around playing against a future UPS driver lol 

[Frankie2Gunz]

11 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You don't watch college football, but are not above punching down on others opinions of players who do? Very odd and on brand. 

Bowers is why you should watch college football. If you did, then maybe you could add something to the conversation instead of being simple and arguing value because they drafted a TE last year which is, lazy for someone who tells everyone else "they don't know ball". 

If you watched college football, you'd see Bowers catching the ball over the field. Only 44.7% of Bowers snaps came from ture TE alignment. Bowers is LISTED as a TE, but can line up outside, wing, slot (818 snaps in college) and the backfield (5 rushing TDs). It's an indicator of versatility, athleticism, skill set. He moves like WR. His route running and body control mimic an elite WR. He averaged more YAC that Nabors, Harrison Jr. and Odunze in college. 

If you want to quantify him, just call him a football player. In the NFL, you are what defenses treat you as. If they want to lineup LBs on him, he will have an advantage. If they cover him with DBs, it opens up everything for the play caller. 

Bottom line:

Draft the player, not the position. That's how you build great teams. With great players. Not great "value".  

That is based on the assumption that player X is far superior to any other payer on the board.  

How many teams in the top 13 had a need at TE?  Chargers, Giants, Titans Jets, Commanders, Broncos and they all passed.  

We took a player at a position that historically does not produce at a high level when we already had a 23 year old "1st round talent" TE on the roster from last years draft.  

You say to draft the player and not the position.  If a 21 year old Justin Tucker was in this draft would you recommend taking him in the 1st? 

[Jeremy408]

22 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You don't watch college football, but are not above punching down on others opinions of players who do? Very odd and on brand. 

Bowers is why you should watch college football. If you did, then maybe you could add something to the conversation instead of being simple and arguing value because they drafted a TE last year which is, lazy for someone who tells everyone else "they don't know ball". 

If you watched college football, you'd see Bowers catching the ball over the field. Only 44.7% of Bowers snaps came from ture TE alignment. Bowers is LISTED as a TE, but can line up outside, wing, slot (818 snaps in college) and the backfield (5 rushing TDs). It's an indicator of versatility, athleticism, skill set. He moves like WR. His route running and body control mimic an elite WR. He averaged more YAC that Nabors, Harrison Jr. and Odunze in college. 

If you want to quantify him, just call him a football player. In the NFL, you are what defenses treat you as. If they want to lineup LBs on him, he will have an advantage. If they cover him with DBs, it opens up everything for the play caller. 

Bottom line:

Draft the player, not the position. That's how you build great teams. With great players. Not great "value".  

I think we can all agree that the problem the last 25 years is that we havent been drafting great value positions; its been that we havent been drafting enough great players. That's why we were drafted JaMarcus Russell's instead of Calvin Johnson's Adrian Petersons are Marshawn Lynch's. That's also why we drop the DJ Haydens of the world and not the Lane Johnson's or Sheldon Richardson's. Thats how that happens.

Edited September 4 by Jeremy408

[big_palooka]

10 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

That is based on the assumption that player X is far superior to any other payer on the board.  

How many teams in the top 13 had a need at TE?  Chargers, Giants, Titans Jets, Commanders, Broncos and they all passed.  

We took a player at a position that historically does not produce at a high level when we already had a 23 year old "1st round talent" TE on the roster from last years draft.  

You say to draft the player and not the position.  If a 21 year old Justin Tucker was in this draft would you recommend taking him in the 1st? 

Still not getting it, unbelievable. 

Using an example as a kicker is just dumb, but you already know that. Why not ask if George Kittle was in this draft would I take him in the first 1st? Then find me one person.... aside from Mr. "Great Value Brand" here who would say no.  

[Geezy]

2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

In the history of the NFL show me one time where two TE's have produced at a high level outside of one year with Gronk and Hernandez....  Let's not forget they had Brady throwing them the ball too not the Minchew.  Mayer is now a backup and will produce like one.  So much for all that baby Gronk talk lol 

Where is Mayer in the current pecking order?  He is behind Adams, Meyers, Tucker, Bowers and White so he's the 6th option playing with a Qb we all hope can throw for 25TD's this year and not turn the ball over at a high rate...  He will produce like a backup. 

The goal of the draft is to improve your roster. 

[Geezy]

2 hours ago, Styrian Raider said:

He came up with "what if Mahomes gets injured and the Chiefs has the #1 pick - should they draft a QB?" - so basically he doesn't understand that.

Yea, I’m over that convo. We will all soon find out 

[MrOaktown_56]

10 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Show me in 5 years with his production not with college highlights of him running around playing against a future UPS driver lol 

He literally did it in the SEC. Definitely not future UPS drivers. Nick Saban called him one of the 2 best skill guys in the draft along with Nabers who went 6. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

12 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Still not getting it, unbelievable. 

Using an example as a kicker is just dumb, but you already know that. Why not ask if George Kittle was in this draft would I take him in the first 1st? Then find me one person.... aside from Mr. "Great Value Brand" here who would say no.  

Kickers are important parts of a team and according to you positions don't factor into the draft at all so why not the GOAT of kickers in the 1st?  It's a legit question that you dismiss as dumb because it goes against your narrative and would make you out to be a bigger hypocrite than you've already shown...

Kittle is a proven commodity and the majority of 1st round picks are busts so I would absolutely take a proven commodity in a sea of players who wont be around in 5 years.  Kittle the prospect was a 5th round pick for a reason and was extremely lucky to be drafted into one of the best situations for any TE in the NFL.  If Kittle was drafted by the Jets we wouldn't be talking about him in the same light we are today and that is a fact.  

The Raiders have been one of the most dysfunctional organizations in the NFL over the last three decades.  We have been terrible from the top down over those years which is a major reason why very few of our draft picks pan out.  The bust rate for players being drafted to a team with poor coaching and terrible surrounding talent goes up exponentially.  Losing is a disease and when they are surrounded by players who are content with losing, have a losing attitude and give up mid way through the year because there is no hope, it affects the young guys the most. 

When a player like Maxx is drafted to a complete dumpster fire of a D with terrible coaching and a bad supporting cast yet overcomes all of that adversity to shine bright on a team littered with straight trash you know that he is truly an elite player that you need to build around.  Maxx would be successful on any team, in any scheme and with any supporting cast if he can shine bright on the Raiders.  I just wish we had more players like Maxx on or team.

Edited September 5 by Frankie2Gunz