DE Tyree Wilson suffers knee sprain; Not considered long-term

[LongJonSilver]

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Now it’s year 3 lol

Tyree was a rookie last year.

[Jerry]

8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Trade him for a 3rd he’s still young and maybe someone will think it was raiders system that failed him

I wonder if a team would even trade a third for him.

[Jerry]

6 minutes ago, LongJonSilver said:

Tyree was a rookie last year.

Leave him alone.  He can't count. 😭

[NCOUGHMAN]

37 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Leave him alone.  He can't count. 😭

You can’t keep up champ. That statement was referring to…The leniency for tyree to show something has been extended to year 3 for some.

[Jerry]

8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

You can’t keep up champ. That statement was referring to the leniency for Tyree to show something has been extended to year 3 for some.

Yeah, I hate wasting time going back pages just to get the full context of the conversation.  I'd rather just say people can't read/count/write/spell as a joke to get them to provide it.  Thanks!

And now that I do know the full context, what is wrong with waiting for players to develop by year 3?  It used to be that rookie QBs would sit behind veterans for a year or two before starting.  Now everyone wants QBs starting day one and then you see players like Bryce Young and Bo Nix playing like hot garbage (and Young being benched).  Not every DL is going to come in their first year and just dominate.  I think waiting until year 3 for T. Wilson to develop is reasonable.  It would be crazy to cut ties with him after only a single season played.

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Trade him for a 3rd he’s still young and maybe someone will think it was raiders system that failed him

I love these statements.... "this player sucks, he's a bust" - Let's trade him for a high draft pick!! 

[ronjon1990]

39 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I love these statements.... "this player sucks, he's a bust" - Let's trade him for a high draft pick!! 

I prefer "He's not working in our system and seems like a sunk cost. Maybe someone else thinks they can be a reclamation project". 

But I tend to cap expectations at a low 3rd rounder/compensatory pick at best in that case. No way Tyree is getting a 1st or 2nd if we're willing to move him. A low 3rd, maybe, and then the discussion becomes "What can a 3rd rounder fetch us?"

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

Yeah, I hate wasting time going back pages just to get the full context of the conversation.  I'd rather just say people can't read/count/write/spell as a joke to get them to provide it.  Thanks!

And now that I do know the full context, what is wrong with waiting for players to develop by year 3?  It used to be that rookie QBs would sit behind veterans for a year or two before starting.  Now everyone wants QBs starting day one and then you see players like Bryce Young and Bo Nix playing like hot garbage (and Young being benched).  Not every DL is going to come in their first year and just dominate.  I think waiting until year 3 for T. Wilson to develop is reasonable.  It would be crazy to cut ties with him after only a single season played.

I don’t even want to see Wilson dominate I just want to see some progression on technique, strength etc from last year. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I love these statements.... "this player sucks, he's a bust" - Let's trade him for a high draft pick!! 

3rd isn’t high I think that’s where I’d start negotiating maybe get a high 4th low 3rd

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I prefer "He's not working in our system and seems like a sunk cost. Maybe someone else thinks they can be a reclamation project". 

But I tend to cap expectations at a low 3rd rounder/compensatory pick at best in that case. No way Tyree is getting a 1st or 2nd if we're willing to move him. A low 3rd, maybe, and then the discussion becomes "What can a 3rd rounder fetch us?"

Exactly 

[LongJonSilver]

7 hours ago, Jerry said:

...  It would be crazy to cut ties with him after only a single season played.

Exactly, especially when that season was on a recovering fractured foot....that everyone knew about and factored into the process. You can't man your way past a foot fracture recovery. I mean, it's a rookie contract ffs.

He's basically on year one NOW in one way of thinking, and I lean that direction based on the upside I see with my own eyes, and the fact that EVERYone knows he has a lot of technique work to catch up on already, and they are down with it.

The question is, can he learn and progress. If he can hold contain, and learn to use his hands better, to go along with his bull rush, I'm FINE with it all.

That said, the recent injury is a whole new front on his war to heal and progress. If he recovers reasonably, onward and hopefully upward. Of course, it's an uncomfortable moment. But it's all moot for a few weeks. 

Edited September 18 by LongJonSilver

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, LongJonSilver said:

Exactly, especially when that season was on a recovering fractured foot....that everyone knew about and factored into the process. You can't man your way past a foot fracture recovery. I mean, it's a rookie contract ffs.

He's basically on year one NOW in one way of thinking, and I lean that direction based on the upside I see with my own eyes, and the fact that EVERYone knows he has a lot of technique work to catch up on already, and they are down with it.

The question is, can he learn and progress. If he can hold contain, and learn to use his hands better, to go along with his bull rush, I'm FINE with it all.

That said, the recent injury is a whole new front on his war to heal and progress. If he recovers reasonably, onward and hopefully upward. Of course, it's an uncomfortable moment. But it's all moot for a few weeks. 

Appreciate this and he certainly is raw and still inexperienced but also we do have to look at what he put on tape. I did a bit of a very amateur breakdown after watching the videos of every snap in pre season. The troubling thing, I think is that in all that film, there is very little progress. He’s had 18 months to work on technique but yet very basic stuff is still missing. Now, I’m not saying he can’t improve and break out but it would be surprising given what we’ve seen.

He simply doesn’t even do things like get his pads down, play with leverage, use his hands, he doesn’t seem to have any pass rush plan just lumbers forward and engages, he doesn't get his hands up when the OT absorbs his initial push. I counted precisely one pass rush move other than a very tame bull rush. He attempts a rip move and it doesn’t work. He doesn’t attempt a single spin move, he doesn’t attempt one single counter. It’s concerning to say the least.

I think Wilson seems like a good kid, I really want him to have a break out as it would really help the team but it’s hard to see him doing that to be frank. I didn’t have him on my big board at all pre draft as I didn’t see a pass rusher, what he showed on film in college is basically what we’ve got. He has improved his terrible get off but we’re waiting for signs. When we say he was raw, he’s basically so raw he has zero moves or technique. He’s in year two with great mentors in Wilkins and Crosby and professional coaches and he needs to start showing something. It’s not anti Wilson, it’s just reality when you’re a high pick.

[LongJonSilver]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Appreciate this and he certainly is raw and still inexperienced but also we do have to look at what he put on tape. I did a bit of a very amateur breakdown after watching the videos of every snap in pre season. The troubling thing, I think is that in all that film, there is very little progress. He’s had 18 months to work on technique but yet very basic stuff is still missing. Now, I’m not saying he can’t improve and break out but it would be surprising given what we’ve seen.

He simply doesn’t even do things like get his pads down, play with leverage, use his hands, he doesn’t seem to have any pass rush plan just lumbers forward and engages, he doesn't get his hands up when the OT absorbs his initial push. I counted precisely one pass rush move other than a very tame bull rush. He attempts a rip move and it doesn’t work. He doesn’t attempt a single spin move, he doesn’t attempt one single counter. It’s concerning to say the least.

I think Wilson seems like a good kid, I really want him to have a break out as it would really help the team but it’s hard to see him doing that to be frank. I didn’t have him on my big board at all pre draft as I didn’t see a pass rusher, what he showed on film in college is basically what we’ve got. He has improved his terrible get off but we’re waiting for signs. When we say he was raw, he’s basically so raw he has zero moves or technique. He’s in year two with great mentors in Wilkins and Crosby and professional coaches and he needs to start showing something. It’s not anti Wilson, it’s just reality when you’re a high pick.

Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. He is certainly as raw as it gets. And we certainly may not get anything further.

OK, let me ramble...

I think we may differ on a few points, like that get off was almost certainly him trying not to rebreak that foot. Not saying it's a solid excuse, because damn, I don't know I've ever seen a slower get off. I'm just saying there was a reason. 

I didn't give him anywhere near the look you have in the preseason. Too much real world. But the one thing that stood out in real time was him getting under that Dallas RT and driving his **** to Cleveland a few times. He blew him right past the QB once....I'm like 'Wait! Come back, did ya noices the guy with ball looking spooked as you went by?!' LOL!

I took that as impressive, even against scrubs. That isn't the progress we're talking about. Still, some say that dude is back-peddling through New Mexico, STILL tryin to drop anchor😆 

And last year I (think I) saw more than what you are describing. I took it as him having a deceptive motor. Almost "Stoic" power. I see hats popping up in the air when he engages. The RESULT, rather than seeing him explore and strain.

I see him crashing down on plays with quickness...selling out and closing in a flash.

Sounds like we are seeing that baseline differently. But I totally agree he's a technical blank canvas. People take Maxx for granted, like he just BECAME great. That boy worked/works,... his,... *** off to have the technique he does. And I'll admit it nags at me, as to how one could even go through all that football without obtaining SOME technique. But it happens. Some guys are just able to skate.

OK, this may be totally far fetched, but I've taught/coached in bilingual environments. Some kinds wait a while to talk. Some wait a while to make friends, or to show themselves in various ways. This dude scans as SUPER shy. I kinda am hoping he's just not wanting to lay new **** out there for fear he's going to **** up and get embarrassed. Probably wishful over-think, but there it is.

I WAS totally looking to NOW to give him a moment to put something new on the table,...give him a fresh look,... and then this knee,....so I'm waiting for things to stabilize. See where he's at NOW, and then I want to give him a HEALTHY year to learn, and see what's up. Then again, we only have 53 spots. I think it was Bobby Cremins the old GTech Basketball coach said 'you can't turn a tree into a basketball player.' Maybe we got ourselves a tree, but I hope not.

Hoping.

Edited September 18 by LongJonSilver

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, LongJonSilver said:

Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. He is certainly as raw as it gets. And we certainly may not get anything further.

OK, let me ramble...

I think we may differ on a few points, like that get off was almost certainly him trying not to rebreak that foot. Not saying it's a solid excuse, because damn, I don't know I've ever seen a slower get off. I'm just saying there was a reason. 

I didn't give him anywhere near the look you have in the preseason. Too much real world. But the one thing that stood out in real time was him getting under that Dallas RT and driving his **** to Cleveland a few times. He blew him right past the QB once....I'm like 'Wait! Come back, did ya noices the guy with ball looking spooked as you went by?!' LOL!

I took that as impressive, even against scrubs. That isn't the progress we're talking about. Still, some say that dude is back-peddling through New Mexico, STILL tryin to drop anchor😆 

And last year I (think I) saw more than what you are describing. I took it as him having a deceptive motor. Almost "Stoic" power. I see hats popping up in the air when he engages. The RESULT, rather than seeing him explore and strain.

I see him crashing down on plays with quickness...selling out and closing in a flash.

Sounds like we are seeing that baseline differently. But I totally agree he's a technical blank canvas. People take Maxx for granted, like he just BECAME great. That boy worked/works,... his,... *** off to have the technique he does. And I'll admit it nags at me, as to how one could even go through all that football without obtaining SOME technique. But it happens. Some guys are just able to skate.

OK, this may be totally far fetched, but I've taught/coached in bilingual environments. Some kinds wait a while to talk. Some wait a while to make friends, or to show themselves in various ways. This dude scans as SUPER shy. I kinda am hoping he's just not wanting to lay new **** out there for fear he's going to **** up and get embarrassed. Probably wishful over-think, but there it is.

I WAS totally looking to NOW to give him a moment to put something new on the table,...give him a fresh look,... and then this knee,....so I'm waiting for things to stabilize. See where he's at NOW, and then I want to give him a HEALTHY year to learn, and see what's up. Then again, we only have 53 spots. I think it was Bobby Cremins the old GTech Basketball coach said 'you can't turn a tree into a basketball player.' Maybe we got ourselves a tree, but I hope not.

Hoping.

His get off was slow in college also before the injury. Everything he’s showing now is exactly what he showed in college just the nfl has way better comp week to week 

One thing I remember is right after the preseason cowboy game he tried the bull rush again vs a slightly better olineman got stonewalled and I never really saw the bull rush happen again.

I’d say his best game was vs kc on Xmas he was active and helped pressure patty didn’t get held up on blocks too much. Stunts are his best friends

Edited September 18 by NCOUGHMAN

[Darbsk]

7 hours ago, LongJonSilver said:

Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. He is certainly as raw as it gets. And we certainly may not get anything further.

OK, let me ramble...

I think we may differ on a few points, like that get off was almost certainly him trying not to rebreak that foot. Not saying it's a solid excuse, because damn, I don't know I've ever seen a slower get off. I'm just saying there was a reason. 

I didn't give him anywhere near the look you have in the preseason. Too much real world. But the one thing that stood out in real time was him getting under that Dallas RT and driving his **** to Cleveland a few times. He blew him right past the QB once....I'm like 'Wait! Come back, did ya noices the guy with ball looking spooked as you went by?!' LOL!

I took that as impressive, even against scrubs. That isn't the progress we're talking about. Still, some say that dude is back-peddling through New Mexico, STILL tryin to drop anchor😆 

And last year I (think I) saw more than what you are describing. I took it as him having a deceptive motor. Almost "Stoic" power. I see hats popping up in the air when he engages. The RESULT, rather than seeing him explore and strain.

I see him crashing down on plays with quickness...selling out and closing in a flash.

Sounds like we are seeing that baseline differently. But I totally agree he's a technical blank canvas. People take Maxx for granted, like he just BECAME great. That boy worked/works,... his,... *** off to have the technique he does. And I'll admit it nags at me, as to how one could even go through all that football without obtaining SOME technique. But it happens. Some guys are just able to skate.

OK, this may be totally far fetched, but I've taught/coached in bilingual environments. Some kinds wait a while to talk. Some wait a while to make friends, or to show themselves in various ways. This dude scans as SUPER shy. I kinda am hoping he's just not wanting to lay new **** out there for fear he's going to **** up and get embarrassed. Probably wishful over-think, but there it is.

I WAS totally looking to NOW to give him a moment to put something new on the table,...give him a fresh look,... and then this knee,....so I'm waiting for things to stabilize. See where he's at NOW, and then I want to give him a HEALTHY year to learn, and see what's up. Then again, we only have 53 spots. I think it was Bobby Cremins the old GTech Basketball coach said 'you can't turn a tree into a basketball player.' Maybe we got ourselves a tree, but I hope not.

Hoping.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you’re saying. But, as @NCOUGHMAN says, the red flags we were seeing in college such as glacial slow get off, lack of any real moves or countermoves other than a straight bull rush and lack of bend or explosiveness for the edge are pretty evident now. 

I do remember him driving that Cowboys tackle right past the QB and it was impressive but it was pre season his rookie year, a long time ago and though he did flash a little towards the end of last season this preseason was a total underwhelming experience. It’s also frustrating seeing him pop up from his stance so high and lose any semblance of leverage, meaning against good OLine no matter how strong he is, he won’t be bulldozing starters, negating his biggest asset.

I guess my main gripe with him is that he was raw as a prospect but after 18 months on a professional organisation with two of the best mentors he could have and what is by most accounts a decent DLine coach in Rob Leonard he hasn’t even developed a single move or counter move and doesn’t seem to have even a basic pass rush plan. He doesn’t set anything up by tricking the OLine or seem to have any other tools in his toolbox. That has to be disappointing. I’ve said it before, the Nigerian boxer David Agoha literally has more advanced technique than Tyree and he’s only been playing the game two years, it’s unbelievable how basic he is.