When does Chris Morgan see accountability?

[AZBearsFan]

After tonight’s abysmal OL performance Poles will get most if not all of the heat. When is Morgan’s turn? He was our OL coach the past 2 years with Fields when we couldn’t protect him either. What exactly is he giving us?

Everyone puts it on Poles that he’s tried to fix the IOL with Lucas Patrick, Nate Davis, Coleman Shelton and Ryan Bates. He has. And I’m certainly not going to say that’s a room full of world beaters. What I will say though, is before they got here, all of them shared a very specific similarity:

They were capable starters. Not stars, but competent. Adequate.

Nate Davis in TEN was a capable, league average RG. Replaceable, but adequate. It’s not even that he’s bad at blocking now - it’s worse than that - he looks like he doesn’t know who to block most of the time.

Lucas Patrick started 28 games in his last 2 years in GB between C and RG and generally faired okay. He certainly didn’t torpedo the Aaron Rodgers offense the way he did here by being a sieve for Fields.

Coleman Shelton started 30 games for the Rams the past 2 years and graded out well. Not a stalwart, certainly, but a capable pivot. Hardly the traffic cone he’s been the past 2 weeks. Much like Davis, he looks like he doesn’t know who to block half the time.

Bates I’ll reserve judgment on because he’s been hurt and is again hurt, but again, he was capable when called upon in BUF.

We’re on multiple schemes and multiple personnel changes and yet every single guy they bring in has gotten worse after they got here.

Poles has blame in this for sure, but how is that not a coaching issue from the only coaching position (I believe) on our offensive staff, the group where we’ve had the most issues during Flus’ 36-game tenure, that hasn’t been turned over since Flus first got here?

[Epyon]

We also retained Morgan BEFORE we hired Waldron if memory serves.

Regardless of whether my memory is accurate or not, the fact that the OL seems positively baffled by stunts, twists, and blitz pickups consistently is a massive concern, and pretty much has to be the fault of the OL coach, right?

[Sugashane]

This is a big reason I mean so heavily toward Ben Johnson and getting Hank Fraley to be the OC. Get a proven guy to call plays and "overpay" the top end OL coach as the OC. Same thing when the Bears were looking for a HC before hiring Flus, I wanted to poach Stenavich.

You win by hitting the other QB and keeping yours clean. Per usual the Bears are falling miserably at one of those. 

[Madmike90]

I think there is no double plenty of blame to go around from Poles to Waldron to Morgan...however what I am seeing is just players being asked to do the basics and making a complete mess of it...for the most part I'm not seeing a lot of complex or difficult blocking schemes being ran...I'm not seeing these OL being asked to make difficult reach blocks or come across the formation much...I'm seeing players being asked to form a simple pocket and not playing with enough awareness or communication with each other to pick up a five man rush...any sort of twist or stunt and they are lost...a delayed blitz has them completely flummoxed and that is before we see them engaged with anyone where they just look soft and weak...even Jenkins is showing no toughness what so ever...

No doubt we need to spend some money up front and that is on Poles...the good news is with Allen's big cap hit if we let him walk we have plenty of money to sign at least two quality OL...Waldron needs to not be as predictable in his play calling and letting teams tee off as pass rushers...Morgan needs to make sure these guys are help accountable for their poor play...but at the end of the day non of these guys can make the blocks for them...this starting 5 need to man up and take some responsibility for keeping Caleb upright & playing way more physical in the run game...my concern is we badly lack a leader in that room who is going to hold the rest of his teammates accountable.

[BeaReylo]

7 hours ago, Sugashane said:

This is a big reason I mean so heavily toward Ben Johnson and getting Hank Fraley to be the OC. Get a proven guy to call plays and "overpay" the top end OL coach as the OC. Same thing when the Bears were looking for a HC before hiring Flus, I wanted to poach Stenavich.

You win by hitting the other QB and keeping yours clean. Per usual the Bears are falling miserably at one of those. 

Here's the thing that worries me... if B Johnson, or any other hotshot OC, does come to Chicago he's going to want HIS own QB, not the last guys leftovers.  Then we're in the same boat as the last two qbs The Bears drafted. 

It be one thing if Williams is a proven commodity like Herbert, in LA, where Harbaugh knows he doesn't have to worry about developing a guy who may or may not work out in the league.  Or when Tony Dungy took over The Colts in Peyton Manning's fourth or fifth year when Peyton was killing defenses and was one of the better signal callers in the game.  Our only hope for CW to get good is keep him in his current regime who drafted and therefore hitched their wagons to him because they have the most interest in helping him get there. 

If we want to see Caleb develop then Eberflus is going to have to put a foot up in BOTH Waldron & Morgan's bum about the O-Line play and give Poles a piece of his mind for his horrid attempts and fixing the line. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

38 minutes ago, BeaReylo said:

Here's the thing that worries me... if B Johnson, or any other hotshot OC, does come to Chicago he's going to want HIS own QB, not the last guys leftovers.  Then we're in the same boat as the last two qbs The Bears drafted. 

It be one thing if Williams is a proven commodity like Herbert, in LA, where Harbaugh knows he doesn't have to worry about developing a guy who may or may not work out in the league.  Or when Tony Dungy took over The Colts in Peyton Manning's fourth or fifth year when Peyton was killing defenses and was one of the better signal callers in the game.  Our only hope for CW to get good is keep him in his current regime who drafted and therefore hitched their wagons to him because they have the most interest in helping him get there. 

If we want to see Caleb develop then Eberflus is going to have to put a foot up in BOTH Waldron & Morgan's bum about the O-Line play and give Poles a piece of his mind for his horrid attempts and fixing the line. 

Oh man, can you imagine if we had to hire a new HC and made it continengent on fixing Williams? I really don't think we're there yet and it's premature by months, but it would be just so precious if the Bears did all that again. 

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, BeaReylo said:

Here's the thing that worries me... if B Johnson, or any other hotshot OC, does come to Chicago he's going to want HIS own QB, not the last guys leftovers.  Then we're in the same boat as the last two qbs The Bears drafted. 

To be fair that was why I was so big on letting Eberflus go and letting the HC pick his guy. Might be unfair to Flus but I care more about the Bears being a real contender than any one player or coach

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

18 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

To be fair that was why I was so big on letting Eberflus go and letting the HC pick his guy. Might be unfair to Flus but I care more about the Bears being a real contender than any one player or coach

Well,  that decision was made, and while I'm still pissed we weren't consulted, it's done. 

I think the real question is, if things go poorly this year and the offense never really gets going but D& ST are good enough to keep it a nice respectable losing record of like 8-9... do you want to move on from the staff no matter what, or do you weight the development of the QB disruption that would occur?  Only way something like that should even be on the table is if Caleb gets massively hurt when a DT throws Shelton Coleman through his sternum and he's out for most of the year.  From where I sit the Bears are better off keeping things stable and hoping for growth. 

[BeaReylo]

18 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

To be fair that was why I was so big on letting Eberflus go and letting the HC pick his guy. Might be unfair to Flus but I care more about the Bears being a real contender than any one player or coach

Who knows, if Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik had been open for HC gigs that might have been the case.  Now if both are available this offseason and Eberflus craps the bed it will be an interesting one?

[Sugashane]

55 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Well,  that decision was made, and while I'm still pissed we weren't consulted, it's done.

I think the real question is, if things go poorly this year and the offense never really gets going but D& ST are good enough to keep it a nice respectable losing record of like 8-9... do you want to move on from the staff no matter what, or do you weight the development of the QB disruption that would occur?  Only way something like that should even be on the table is if Caleb gets massively hurt when a DT throws Shelton Coleman through his sternum and he's out for most of the year.  From where I sit the Bears are better off keeping things stable and hoping for growth. 

Agreed. That's why I'm doing my dynasty mock, so I can gloat now then pretend I wasn't horribly wrong 5 years later when Johnson ends up being a McDaniels clone. Lol

QB is king. Right now Williams is the most important piece of the Franchise. If he develops to a top 5 QB the Bears can contend year in and year out. Top defenses and crap offenses give you what the Bears have had for the last 30 years, aberration years of success. Poles should be tied to Williams' success, but I do believe Poles should get another pick at HC if this doesn't work out. Whether he thinks 8-9 is acceptable or not is up to him, but if I got Waldron over Getsy, Allen, Everett, Swift, and got Williams and the offense doesn't make significant improvements from last year? I'd be ready to cut the staff loose. Defenses can be rebuilt more easily than QBs can be developed. Bears are living proof of that. For Goff to be a reclamation project, and KOC to have Darnold playing well (so far of course) and GB to have a system that has gone through offensive HCs for thr last 30 years I'm just kind of over defensive HCs. Sure you can name Belichick, John Harbaugh, etc but they have had franchise QBs to ride. Can Waldron/Eberflus develop Williams to that? I'm skeptical.

[Madmike90]

I wonder what their long term plan for Amegadjie is...

Is he here to challenge Jones for LT?

Is he here to replace Teven at LG if we don't want to pay him at LG?

We took him #75 overall so we clearly have high hopes for him to be able to play a role...part of me thinks put him in at LG...move Jenkins to RG and hope being a little bigger and longer around Shelton might help him a bit.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

13 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I wonder what their long term plan for Amegadjie is...

Is he here to challenge Jones for LT?

Is he here to replace Teven at LG if we don't want to pay him at LG?

We took him #75 overall so we clearly have high hopes for him to be able to play a role...part of me thinks put him in at LG...move Jenkins to RG and hope being a little bigger and longer around Shelton might help him a bit.

I think he's there to be insurance or push Jones at LT.  It's weird if it works but it would be awesome if the BEars just kept getting LTs for late picks. I don't think he played much guard and seems to have more of a tackle/TE frame so I don't know if you want him parking it up inside.  There is nothing at all to suggest the Bears think he's even going to play this season so if we see him on the field it's serious. 

[Madmike90]

4 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I think he's there to be insurance or push Jones at LT.  It's weird if it works but it would be awesome if the BEars just kept getting LTs for late picks. I don't think he played much guard and seems to have more of a tackle/TE frame so I don't know if you want him parking it up inside.  There is nothing at all to suggest the Bears think he's even going to play this season so if we see him on the field it's serious. 

I think for me it is already serious...we can't block anyone and teams are just going to send blitz after blitz until we an figure it out...Amegadjie played guard early in his career at Yale and while he does have a tackle frame given his 36" arms he is nothing like a TE...dude is 323lbs...his size and length reminds me of the Cowboys playing Tyler Smith inside at LG before then moving him to LT this offseason...not saying he is going to be that good a player but right now things can't get much worse...we have to try something.

[soulman]

On 9/15/2024 at 10:48 PM, AZBearsFan said:

After tonight’s abysmal OL performance Poles will get most if not all of the heat. When is Morgan’s turn? He was our OL coach the past 2 years with Fields when we couldn’t protect him either. What exactly is he giving us?

Everyone puts it on Poles that he’s tried to fix the IOL with Lucas Patrick, Nate Davis, Coleman Shelton and Ryan Bates. He has. And I’m certainly not going to say that’s a room full of world beaters. What I will say though, is before they got here, all of them shared a very specific similarity:

They were capable starters. Not stars, but competent. Adequate.

Nate Davis in TEN was a capable, league average RG. Replaceable, but adequate. It’s not even that he’s bad at blocking now - it’s worse than that - he looks like he doesn’t know who to block most of the time.

Lucas Patrick started 28 games in his last 2 years in GB between C and RG and generally faired okay. He certainly didn’t torpedo the Aaron Rodgers offense the way he did here by being a sieve for Fields.

Coleman Shelton started 30 games for the Rams the past 2 years and graded out well. Not a stalwart, certainly, but a capable pivot. Hardly the traffic cone he’s been the past 2 weeks. Much like Davis, he looks like he doesn’t know who to block half the time.

Bates I’ll reserve judgment on because he’s been hurt and is again hurt, but again, he was capable when called upon in BUF.

We’re on multiple schemes and multiple personnel changes and yet every single guy they bring in has gotten worse after they got here.

Poles has blame in this for sure, but how is that not a coaching issue from the only coaching position (I believe) on our offensive staff, the group where we’ve had the most issues during Flus’ 36-game tenure, that hasn’t been turned over since Flus first got here?

I have to admit I have my own questions about this yet CMo is one of the best OL coaches in the NFL.  Braxton Jones has developed under him.  Darnell Wright had a good rookie year.  TJ has become a near All Pro OG when healthy.  So not everyone whose played has failed to measure up.  We have a new offensive scheme this year.  How much does that have to do with the regression.

I also see a whole lot of confusion.  Players not knowing who to block or missing a stunt or failing to pick up a blitz.  The OL graded out as a middle of the road last season ans with the additions Poles made we had a right to expect some improvement.  Not what we've gotten so far.  I'm lax to blame it all on coaching with more info on what ails the entire offense.  The coordination is sorely lacking.

I have the same questions about Shelton who started the past two years in LA and Davis although with Davis I just think the guys plays lazy and he will never be a consistent OG.  Ya gotta ask yourself why even though Tennessee drafted him and he started for them for four years they let him walk in FA over a $10 mil APY deal that only guaranteed $17.5 mil?  That's mid grade OL money.

I'm still of the belief that if you want a top OL you have to draft it and mold it from the ground up to play the scheme you play.  Our draft picks have done alright.  Our FA signings not well at all.  Is it because they're not the fit for the scheme we run as much as Poles believes they were?  Bates is hurt now and tough to evaluate but the others like Davis, Shelton, Patrick, etc have been failures.

Poles has spent big money on adding skill players yet we've failed to build an OL that allows us and our rookie QB to take advantage of this.  It may be time for Poles to admit what he's tried hasn't worked and if he's gonna buy OL talent buy the best he can afford and draft the rest before the middle rounds.  As for now someone needs to get to the bottom of the crappy OL play and fix it.

[StLunatic88]

14 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I wonder what their long term plan for Amegadjie is...

Is he here to challenge Jones for LT?

Is he here to replace Teven at LG if we don't want to pay him at LG?

We took him #75 overall so we clearly have high hopes for him to be able to play a role...part of me thinks put him in at LG...move Jenkins to RG and hope being a little bigger and longer around Shelton might help him a bit.

You have to think that if he's fully healthy and up to spped (more important) that he has to factor into this OL for 2024. If hey didnt plan on it, then leave him on PUP/IR for the year and use the roster spot

Long term my guess is they are looking at him at LT. Ive said that I think Braxton is maxed out, and while thats decent, its not a spot we can just let him go and not worry about it at all. But for now, Id hope they are trying to get him in there at Guard, and then he can be that guy in 2025, and maybe Braxton is good enough and Amegadjie locks down LG, but if not you slide him out to LT in 2026.

But what we are looking at right now, Id hope by Mid-season we are looking at Bates in at Center as soon as hes healthy, but KA in at Guard instead of Davis. Jenkins (and his people especially) likely wouldnt let him be flipped to RG mid season, but Id really like to see a Jenkins/Wright combo in the Run Game.