DirtyDez Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 The Saints lost so many 50/50 playoff games over years where he could easily have two more rings. He also had the worst MVP luck ever going up against Brady/Rodgers/Manning at their statistical peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 11 hours ago, DirtyDez said: The Saints lost so many 50/50 playoff games over years where he could easily have two more rings. He also had the worst MVP luck ever going up against Brady/Rodgers/Manning at their statistical peak. Except he only faced any one of Brady/Rodgers/Manning just once in the playoffs, when he beat Manning. Not sure you can pin Brees postseason losses on other QBs when he almost never faced them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 Imo Brees is one of the best QBs that Ive ever seen. His impact was HUGE in more ways than one. If the Dolphins wouldve signed off on him going there then Nick Saban wouldve still be coaching in the NFL that means he wouldve never left for Bama and that dynasty wouldve never happened. I think Saban wouldve had success in the NFL if Brees was his QB and not Culpepper. At the same time Brees impact in New Orleans shaped the way New Orleans is still viewed today. People still talk about the Saints offense as if they still had Payton and Brees and they long left the Saints. Brees brought the Saints a Superbowl and while the Saints kept falling short after that in the playoffs the expectations were always high every season. Thats what made it so brutal when they lost in the playoffs bc how high expectations was then how well they performed in the regular season. To me the Saints expectations and regular seasons under Payton and Brees were like the Packers with LaFleur and ARod and now what we are seeing from Dallas. Great expectations, great regular season, flop in the playoffs. With Dallas though no NFCCG. At least the Saints and Packers made it to the NFCCG they just failed to win it. So again I think Brees is one of the best QBs Ive ever seen. Had the pleasure to see him live in person a few times in the Superdome. I dont regret missing out going to the NFCCG to see Rams v Saints bc how hostile Saints fans were after the Rams won and you know I wouldve been so pumped seeing my team come from behind to win. But at the same time I wouldve been a nervous wreck so it was better for me to just watch it by myself at home than going in person with my best friend who is a Saints fan watching in person. But yeah Brees was amazing to watch. The times I did go see him play in person I have some nice pictures I took of just how crafty he was in the pocket avoiding sacks and still making the throws. His pocket awareness combined with his accuracy was deadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 9 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Except he only faced any one of Brady/Rodgers/Manning just once in the playoffs, when he beat Manning. Not sure you can pin Brees postseason losses on other QBs when he almost never faced them! QB’s play the opposing defense not the opposing QB. The defense gave up GW drives to SF, Minnesota and the Rams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 5 hours ago, DirtyDez said: QB’s play the opposing defense not the opposing QB. The defense gave up GW drives to SF, Minnesota and the Rams. Saints defense failures in the postseason were so epic they have their own names, and two of them have their own wiki page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 12 hours ago, DirtyDez said: QB’s play the opposing defense not the opposing QB. The defense gave up GW drives to SF, Minnesota and the Rams. Yeah it wasn't me that made the point that Brees is unfortunate that he played during the era of Brady/Manning/Rodgers. I'm just pointing out that those QBs had nothing to do with Brees not having more playoff success. He only played them once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said: Yeah it wasn't me that made the point that Brees is unfortunate that he played during the era of Brady/Manning/Rodgers. I'm just pointing out that those QBs had nothing to do with Brees not having more playoff success. He only played them once. pretty sure the point was that Brees had multiple MVP caliber seasons only to be beat out by other QBs that had slightly better seasons. These are seasons that would've been MVP seasons most years. It's not the normal number 2 in MVP voting that had a good season but you can find plenty of other similar seasons by other players. Just looking at last years MVP season by Lamar Jackson, Brees had multiple years that blew that out of the water in both production and similar/better team records, but lost out to Brady/Manning/Rodgers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 1 hour ago, Raves said: pretty sure the point was that Brees had multiple MVP caliber seasons only to be beat out by other QBs that had slightly better seasons. These are seasons that would've been MVP seasons most years. It's not the normal number 2 in MVP voting that had a good season but you can find plenty of other similar seasons by other players. Just looking at last years MVP season by Lamar Jackson, Brees had multiple years that blew that out of the water in both production and similar/better team records, but lost out to Brady/Manning/Rodgers. Offensive production really increased a lot right around the time Brees started putting up his numbers. The league's rule changes made passing very easy in the 2010s. Passing numbers were down last year, hence Lamar's MVP. You have to adjust for the era. Saying that he would have been MVP most years makes no sense in that context. If Brees was playing in the 1980s or 1990s he would have been broken in half lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Offensive production really increased a lot right around the time Brees started putting up his numbers. The league's rule changes made passing very easy in the 2010s. Passing numbers were down last year, hence Lamar's MVP. You have to adjust for the era. Saying that he would have been MVP most years makes no sense in that context. If Brees was playing in the 1980s or 1990s he would have been broken in half They're not wrong, Brees did get beat out at least twice in MVP by Manning and Rodgers, an argument can be made for another year. There isn't a year Brady had anything to do with it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 26 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: They're not wrong, Brees did get beat out at least twice in MVP by Manning and Rodgers, an argument can be made for another year. There isn't a year Brady had anything to do with it though. Brees had a MVP caliber year in 2018 too but Mahomes had just a crazy year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 59 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: They're not wrong, Brees did get beat out at least twice in MVP by Manning and Rodgers, an argument can be made for another year. There isn't a year Brady had anything to do with it though. Ok, but if Brees existed in earlier eras, then he would also have to compete against position players like Lawrence Taylor or Barry Sanders. The MVP has been a QB award only since the mid-2000s (with Adrian Peterson the only exception). I'm not sure it was easier to win MVPs in earlier eras. I certainly admit that 4 2nd place finished for MVP is excellent and a testament to his greatness. I just have him outside the top 10 because he wasn't top-3 for his era, I have to give precedence for the players in the past that were top 1 or 2 for their time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 14 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Ok, but if Brees existed in earlier eras, then he would also have to compete against position players like Lawrence Taylor or Barry Sanders. The MVP has been a QB award only since the mid-2000s (with Adrian Peterson the only exception). I'm not sure it was easier to win MVPs in earlier eras. I certainly admit that 4 2nd place finished for MVP is excellent and a testament to his greatness. I just have him outside the top 10 because he wasn't top-3 for his era, I have to give precedence for the players in the past that were top 1 or 2 for their time. I'm just saying, it is true that most people inarguably rank Brady, Rodgers, Manning top ten easily, if not top 5. Manning and Brady are many people's number 1 and number 2. That's three top 5s playing at exactly the same time as Brees. If you agree those three are that good, then it has to mean something when talking about Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 4 hours ago, Jlowe22 said: I'm just saying, it is true that most people inarguably rank Brady, Rodgers, Manning top ten easily, if not top 5. Manning and Brady are many people's number 1 and number 2. That's three top 5s playing at exactly the same time as Brees. If you agree those three are that good, then it has to mean something when talking about Brees. I agree Manning and Brady are top 5 QBs but Rodgers is more of a fringe top 10. So if Brees is a couple slots below Rodgers that's outside top 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 9 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: I agree Manning and Brady are top 5 QBs but Rodgers is more of a fringe top 10. So if Brees is a couple slots below Rodgers that's outside top 10 I think just about everyone from 5-15 is close enough to make argument for any of them over another. The only ones I rank for sure in the highest tier are Brady, Manning and Montana, starting at the merger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LieutenantGains Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 (edited) The guys I'd have ahead of Brees no question (chronological order) Graham Unitas Staubach Montana Young Manning Brady Rodgers Mahomes The next tier of 4 after those 9 is so jumbled to me that it's splitting hairs and I could change the order any day (Elway, Marino, Favre, Brees) So for me, Brees a high ranking of #10 and a low of #13. Edited September 21 by LieutenantGains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.