2018 draft talk

[drd23]

4 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

I could get behind the Ravens taking Sony Michel.

Thanks to Alvin Kamara, he's going to be drafted higher than he otherwise would have

[Danand]

7 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Yes. Deontay Burnett declared.

Okay, just saw some videos with him. I could actually get behind drafting af USC wide receiver. What I like (from the highlights), I saw some actual routerunning, adjustments to the football, improvisation and balance.

[diamondbull424]

I think Michel might surprise a couple draft analysts and get taken ahead of Darius Guice as the 2nd running back as Guice falls to the 2nd round and Michel goes at the end of the 1st round. Michel has always kind of reminded me of Willis McGahee. Maybe even Shaun Alexander (I didn’t watch as much of him as McGahee but from what I remember he was a rich man’s McGahee or what McGahee might have been if he never got hurt in his final college game). Quick but has power to finish off runs as well. Also has long speed, but not a true second gear, and as a runner he is missing that elite trait that keeps them from being in the Adrian Peterson/LaDainian Tomlinson class of running back. He does however run mean. He’s a great 3rd down back because of his hands and blocking ability. He also runs with really good leverage. Gets low against tackling defenders to bowl them over and keep them from properly wrapping up with arm tackles.

And that’s what I’m talking about. My definition of locking up the running back position is with these types of running backs. Guys you watch and aren’t just impressive, but look special. I still need to finish looking at some more of these other runners, but as of right now I would easily replace a one trick pony in Alex Collins for a multi faceted back that’s more talented at that one trick, like Michel.

And it’s not just Michel. Alabama has the perfect defense for stopping a runner like Nick Chubb. They play old school and down hill. They want to stop the runner before he build up steam. Chubb is a runner that thrives when he gets to the second level of the defense. He runs high, after his injury isn’t as shifty, but has elite long speed. If he gets to the second level he’s gone. But he can also usually grind out at least 3 yards until that long run inevitably comes his way. He’s essentially Jamal Lewis in the modern era trading some size for better catching ability. You can’t arm tackle him, you have to tackle him low and deal with those concussion inducing legs. So against Bama, who tackle low and prevent runners from getting to the second level by playing down hill, I didn’t like his chances as much as Sony Michel.

That said, Chubb has better hands than Alex Collins and is just as explosive in getting to a hole. Only has much more power. And against NFL defenses that have less and less thumpers, I can see Chubb’s style of play really working well for us. Get him to the second level and good luck with your 6’2” 215-225 lbs linebackers and even smaller safeties stopping this man with a full head of steam.

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

Okay, just saw some videos with him. I could actually get behind drafting af USC wide receiver. What I like (from the highlights), I saw some actual routerunning, adjustments to the football, improvisation and balance.

He's a great player, easy catcher, quick and fast, big time grit for his size and he's only 20 so there's a lot of potential there. I have a much higher grade on him than I did JuJu from last year.

[Danand]

36 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

He's a great player, easy catcher, quick and fast, big time grit for his size and he's only 20 so there's a lot of potential there. I have a much higher grade on him than I did JuJu from last year.

 

JuJu surprised me in a very positive way. He was far more polished and played beyond his years in his rookie season. I was very wrong about him. Also, the speed he showed in the NFL, I certainly didn’t see that on his college tapes.

Burnett on a highlight tape from his first 3 games in 2017 had a really nice route, where he set up the defender in the slot with a move to the inside and then quickly broke outside where the ball was delivered. That would suit well with what Flacco seems to like in his receivers. Also, from the few plays I saw of Burnett, he gets some “easy” yards due to those explosive first steps, which would help a lot if we insist of using our screen game.

[diamondbull424]

14 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Yes. Deontay Burnett declared.

Yeah that kid is good. I haven’t watched his tape. But I’m watching Ronald Jones... and Burnett keeps standing out as a playmaker... on someone else’s game cut ups. Smh... ridiculous.?

[DreamKid]

56 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah that kid is good. I haven’t watched his tape. But I’m watching Ronald Jones... and Burnett keeps standing out as a playmaker... on someone else’s game cut ups. Smh... ridiculous.?

Man you're going hard on them running backs.

Last year when looking at Reuben Foster's Cut Ups I noticed a certain someone playing corner like a Xenomorph......., a player has to be pretty crazy to not only stand out on a Bama D but also take attention away from Foster.

[DreamKid]

In trying to nail down who will be available at our pick I started mocking and this is what I have so far-

1. Cle- Sam Darnold QB: Top QB on their board.

2. NYG- Josh Rosen QB: Top QB on their board.

3. Ind- Minkah Fitzpatick CB/S: Smart, Versatile player that will cement an up and coming secondary with Malik Hooker.

4. Cle- Saquon Barkley HB: Cleveland fans get their young duo and hopefully we don't get headaches for 10 years because of it.

5. Den- Quenton Nelson G: Early for a guard but a dominant player who they feel is safe, Elway is done playing the QB game in the early rounds and will get Smith or Cousins.

6. NYJ- Baker Mayfield QB: Makes too much sense, you can practically see Jamal Adams yelling from the sideline in encouragement of another young leader in Baker.

7. TB- Bradley Chubb DE: I think Davenport could supplant him but gave them the respected Chubb, that team needs leaders.

8. CHI- Marcus Davenport Edge: Davenport is a freak and the Bear will pass on Ridley in favor of a pass rushing tandem of Floyd and he.

9. SF- Roquan Smith WLB: 49er fans get their new duo at LB and Russel Wilson is forced to beat them from the pocket with Foster or Roquan at spy.

10. Oak- Vita Vea DT: The Raiders are a straight up disaster on defense and Vea effects the run and pass too much for them to pass on him.

11. Mia- Calvin Ridley WR: Baltimore fans once again lose out on the top wide out with Miami needing someone absent Landry who departs in FA.

12. Cin- OL: I don't know this Tackle class well enough to be sure who will rise to the top, projections are all over the place.

-----

Now here's where I hit a snag. It's Washington 13, Packers 14, and Cardinals 15. It's conceivable that Washington goes Josh Allen and the Cardinals go Lamar jackson but I'm not sure and the Packers are a hard one to pin down. 

We miss out on Davenport and Ridley in this scenario but there's a good chance Taven might be there. 

I'm 100% sure Davenport will rise like crazy and Derwin James won't go as high as people think. Derwin is like a Rich Man's Tony Jefferson, he's stronger and more physical but I think his 40 time will come in slower than people want in a higher pick.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

The thing we almost never take into account for are 1st round trades. Happens every year and every single mock basically goes to crap because of it.

I shutter at the thought of the Niners having Smith and Foster as their ILB's for years to come. That's a freaking crazy good duo.

[DreamKid]

25 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

The thing we almost never take into account for are 1st round trades. Happens every year and every single mock basically goes to crap because of it.

I shutter at the thought of the Niners having Smith and Foster as their ILB's for years to come. That's a freaking crazy good duo.

Trades have to be accounted for if you're trying to predict exactly who will go where but in a projection of available players it doesn't matter that much. It's not like teams trade in to positions and select someone who wasn't going to be picked within 2 other selections or something anyway. 

Yea whoever wins that coin toss out of the 49ers and Raiders will most likely select Smith, it's like they're flipping for him. I'm not a big fan of him tbh though. He's too small and any second level activity from lineman removes him from the play. He does have great instincts though, some of the best I've seen on a young LB since Kuechly, that part of his game isn't being oversold. 

[diamondbull424]

DBs running back rankings:

Five Star- All Pro Talent

1. Saquon Barkley- LaDainian Tomlinson

Best college running back that I’ve scouted since Adrian Peterson. Has the ability to do everything you can ask. Elite deep speed to outrun defenders. Elite change of direction skills. Great hands to be a force in the passing game. Tackle breaking ability with power to burst through arm tackles. Escapability skillset where even when you properly tackle, like Steve Smith made famous, sometimes he still wriggles out by maneuvering his body somehow. And his vision is high level. Plays where there is no play to make he still finds ways to set up blockers and figures out how to instinctively make something happen. 

Four Star- Pro Bowl Talent

2. Rashaad Penny- Edgerrin James

Another running back that can perform at a high level in all phases of the game. Great center of gravity to run low. Good change of direction ability. Explosive. Good vision. Powerful runner. Also has good hands for the passing game. Complete 3 down back. Has a second gear to get into on deep runs.

3. Derrius Guice- Ray Rice

Complete 3 down back. Runs with power to break tackles. Low center of gravity. Nice hands for the reception. Lacks a second gear when running. Also I fear their might be some durability concerns at the next level.

4a. Bryce Love- Jamaal Charles

Explosive, elite speed. Great field vision. Normally runs north south, but can cutback. Patience as a runner. Doesn’t just hit the back of his lineman and falls forward, like some. Solid hands. Three down back. Biggest detriment is not a goal line back and has a slight frame leading to durability concerns.

4b. Sony Michel- Cadillac Williams

Explosive player with tackle breaking ability. Great hands. Can be lined up as a receiver. Plays with nice leverage. Runs low.

6. Nick Chubb- Frank Gore

Powerful runner that has decent hands. Will sometimes run into the backs of his lineman, but when given a crease, he can be gone in a hurry. He also reminds me of Jamal Lewis, I just don’t see as lethal of a stiff arm. He probably trades a worse stiff arm for slightly better receiving skills.

 Three Star- Starter level

7. Ronald Jones- Great balance between hands and running ability. I came away from Jones tape with some excitement, but not overly hyped. He looked very solid. Really good receiving ability would make him a big plus for a team that passes more often than not. He doesn’t really bring a truck stick with him but can break some tackles. I have him over Harris for his increased receiving ability.

8. Damien Harris- Would work best in a zone blocking scheme where he only has to one cut and go down hill. In such a system I think he could do really well. He has great deep speed and runs with power, but I think he lacks great vision. I also don’t see any elite traits that wow me. 

9. Ito Smith- Explosive speedy running back with quality hands. Doesn’t have as good of vision as Bryce Love and his carry technique is very reminiscent of Alex Collins.

Two Star- Useful Skillset

10. Royce Freeman- big should be able to move the chains on short yardage.

11. Kalen Ballage- He’s a bigger guy. He has slower feet but a big frame. Red zone runner.

One Star- Tryout for special teams

[paraven]

dont forget to take into account crazy runs on WRs' either. Many mocks last year up until the last minute had us being able to choose one of the top 2 wrs, and then all 3 were taking early on. I wouldnt be surprised to see Ridley and either Washington/Sutton gone by the time we pick.

[DreamKid]

@diamondbull424 Would you put Alex Collins at two or three stars on your grade system? 

[diamondbull424]

22 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

@diamondbull424 Would you put Alex Collins at two or three stars on your grade system? 

Three stars. He deserves to be a starter somewhere. But like Ito Smith I would have him lower on the rung. Fumble issues and he really only beats you with explosiveness. He doesn’t possess the truck stick I’d want nor does he have the escapability skillset that I’ll see every now and again. Barry Sanders, Steve Smith, LaDanian Tomlinson, Percy Harvin, and now Saquan Barkley are a few of the players that had that extra element.

But yeah, back to Collins. He’s a solid player. If we HAVE to roll with him next year because the draft didn’t fall the right way, I’m down and will still get excited when he makes some nice plays, but I think this running back class looks pretty special. Rashaad Penny “Runaway” (coined here first) in the second round or third round would be a great pick. Any of my four or five Star players I would take over Collins, if it’s a three star guy, I’d rather just ride with what we have.

[DreamKid]

20 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Rashaad Penny “Runaway” (coined here first) in the second round or third round would be a great pick.

Tell you this there's no punk in Penny, dude runs hard throughout the game. Can't wait to see his 10 yard split at the combine too. San Diego State's RB coach and OL coach have done a great job for years now.