Gruden expected to want OC Morton in Oakland

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, JetsFan15 said:

We are far away from having Dallas' OL and Elliot. 

 

I guess the difference is that I believe we were lucky to go 5-11 this year and most of it was because Bowles did a good job and Mac found some talent in the draft.  So if we go 5-11 next year with a rookie QB, I view that as progress.  Obviously you and Barnaby would not. 

I don’t think we were lucky. Bc we were in every loss minus 3 of them. So 13 games we were in a position to win. With the talent he had, yes we exceeded expectations. But we are pretty much losing no one valuable (Mo was awful). You’re correct in that we don’t have Dallas’ OLine or Elliott. But... if we don’t get a Cousins, we can spend that 100mill on 2 OLineman, Bell perhaps, Graham at TE, a star WR, etc. Making this situation similar to that of Dallas’ for a rookie QB. That’s even without talking about our 2 2nd Rounder and our early 3rd pick either. This roster in several ways will be upgraded in the offseason. Think of the 2015 offseason and he actually have more cap space than that even. And there’s a better FA pool.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Said it above, but just don't think we have a "good deal of young talent" as you stated.  On offense, we have zero young talent outside of Robby (a UDFA) and Enunwa (an Idzik pick).  On D, we have our two safeties, Leo, and Demario is still pretty young. Not much else.

We have more talent than that. You can’t have pro bowlers everywhere. But there’s talent in the roster. You left out Shell at RT who’s been pretty good. ASJ at TE. Both Safeties. Claiborne is a solid #2 CB, Lee should only get better. Jenkins is a good edge setter. All this defense needs really is an edge rusher and a #1 CB. Yes that’s alot but it’s only 2 spots. Offense is a whole other story.

[JetsFan15]

2 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

I think i'd have more issue with Mac being back than Bowles.  You won't agree, but I don't think Mac has done a good job.  Virtually all of his FA signings haven't panned out, his trades have been 100% boom or bust, and he hasn't found much talent in the draft outside of the 1st round with the exception of Maye.  McGuire and Jenkins are nice role players.  That's about it.

Your right I disagree.  Adams, Maye, McGuire, Lee, Jenkins, Shell, Williams and perhaps Stewart and Hansen from the draft all look to be solid contributors with Adams, May, Williams looking like cornerstones/stars to a very good defense.  Add in Robbie Anderson as  UFA and the trade of Richardson that may enable us to trade up for a QB in this draft after netting another 2nd round pick and the results, I believe are more positive then negative.  He had the guts to cut dead weight  with Mangold, Harris, Revis, Decker and bad locker room guys like Marshall. 

The draft is not an exact science and every team misses more then they hit.

[barnaby8787]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

We have more talent than that. You can’t have pro bowlers everywhere. But there’s talent in the roster. You left out Shell at RT who’s been pretty good. ASJ at TE. Both Safeties. Claiborne is a solid #2 CB, Lee should only get better. Jenkins is a good edge setter. All this defense needs really is an edge rusher and a #1 CB. Yes that’s alot but it’s only 2 spots. Offense is a whole other story.

Shell got worse as the year went on, ASJ is extremely erratic, and Claiborne had more bad games than good games.  Jenkins isn't a good edge setter; he's decent.

[barnaby8787]

Just now, JetsFan15 said:

Your right I disagree.  Adams, Maye, McGuire, Lee, Jenkins, Shell, Williams and perhaps Stewart and Hansen from the draft all look to be solid contributors with Adams, May, Williams looking like cornerstones/stars to a very good defense.  Add in Robbie Anderson as  UFA and the trade of Richardson that may enable us to trade up for a QB in this draft after netting another 2nd round pick and the results, I believe are more positive then negative.  He had the guts to cut dead weight  with Mangold, Harris, Revis, Decker and bad locker room guys like Marshall. 

The draft is not an exact science and every team misses more then they hit.

Not saying the draft is an exact science, but the good GM's find ways to find steals in the middle and late rounds.  Lee is horrific by the way.  Graded out as a bottom 10 linebacker in the league two years in a row.  This year, he was PFF's #89 overall LB.  In terms of the guts to cut dead weight, he's the one who signed revis and traded for Marshall.  His first FA class was arguably the most disastrous in team history.

[JetsFan15]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I don’t think we were lucky. Bc we were in every loss minus 3 of them. So 13 games we were in a position to win. With the talent he had, yes we exceeded expectations. But we are pretty much losing no one valuable (Mo was awful). You’re correct in that we don’t have Dallas’ OLine or Elliott. But... if we don’t get a Cousins, we can spend that 100mill on 2 OLineman, Bell perhaps, Graham at TE, a star WR, etc. Making this situation similar to that of Dallas’ for a rookie QB. That’s even without talking about our 2 2nd Rounder and our early 3rd pick either. This roster in several ways will be upgraded in the offseason. Think of the 2015 offseason and he actually have more cap space than that even. And there’s a better FA pool.

Lucky is prob not the right word.  We overachieved and I credit that to Bowles.  That is why I said he is winning me over.

We are not getting Bell.  We are not getting Graham.  Pipe dreams.  I doubt we get Cousins too.  I think they are looking to build with young guys.  I would agree that we need to spend on the OL,DL and CB in FA.  I agree there should be an upgrade in talent with the money we have and via the draft.  I am going with the assumption we are starting a rookie QB next year.  Not every rookie is a stud right out of the gate as he needs to adjust.  That is why I am not set on a Win number but progress of the QB and talent level of the team.  2019 is the key year for Bowles and perhaps Mac. 

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Shell got worse as the year went on, ASJ is extremely erratic, and Claiborne had more bad games than good games.  Jenkins isn't a good edge setter; he's decent.

They’re players worth starting and keeping around. It’s not like you made it sound. You have us with 6 decent players out if 22 starters. And that’s not true. We have a few more than that. Can’t have stars for 22 spots. 

[barnaby8787]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

They’re players worth starting and keeping around. It’s not like you made it sound. You have us with 6 decent players out if 22 starters. And that’s not true. We have a few more than that. Can’t have stars for 22 spots. 

Shell will start next year, but don't be surprised if they try to upgrade the year after if he doesn't improve.  He regressed this year from last year.  I'd take ASJ back cheap.  Claiborne is seriously not good though.  You're actually one of the few fans I've heard defend him.  PFF had him as the #89 overall corner this year and he had 10 penalties this year as well.  Adding to this, i'm more arguing "young talent".  Guys like McClendon are solid, but not young, etc.

[JetsFan15]

5 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Not saying the draft is an exact science, but the good GM's find ways to find steals in the middle and late rounds.  Lee is horrific by the way.  Graded out as a bottom 10 linebacker in the league two years in a row.  This year, he was PFF's #89 overall LB.  In terms of the guts to cut dead weight, he's the one who signed revis and traded for Marshall.  His first FA class was arguably the most disastrous in team history.

Did you say that when they went 10-6 and driving to make the playoffs? 

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Not saying the draft is an exact science, but the good GM's find ways to find steals in the middle and late rounds.  Lee is horrific by the way.  Graded out as a bottom 10 linebacker in the league two years in a row.  This year, he was PFF's #89 overall LB.  In terms of the guts to cut dead weight, he's the one who signed revis and traded for Marshall.  His first FA class was arguably the most disastrous in team history.

Not true at all. They made a 4-12 team into a 10-6 team in an offseason. It’s where he spent the money and all that was the issue (older guys). He did improve the roster immediately though. It just wasn’t right moves for team building. But it did result in wins.

[barnaby8787]

Just now, JetsFan15 said:

Did you say that when they went 10-6 and driving to make the playoffs? 

Looked great year 1, but in hindsight, we all recognized that it was a huge mistake because it brought on the rebuild and every player he signed that year sucked after year 1.

[barnaby8787]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Not true at all. They made a 4-12 team into a 10-6 team in an offseason. It’s where he spent the money and all that was the issue (older guys). He did improve the roster immediately though. It just wasn’t right moves for team building. But it did result in wins.

That's my point though Bobby.  He 100% improved the team year 1, won't argue that, but the signings were not smart and it's what forced the rebuild.  Instead of trying to rip off the bandaid slowly, he went all out and tried to fix the team in one year, which was the wrong approach.  

[JetsFan15]

2 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Looked great year 1, but in hindsight, we all recognized that it was a huge mistake because it brought on the rebuild and every player he signed that year sucked after year 1.

And that is my point.  There is no doubt in my mind that his first year had Woody's finger prints all over it.  Year one success lead to year 2 expectations and having to bring back Fitz and Fitz being what he is ... a gamer but not an elite talent and that all caught up with them. 

Hence my statement that this year was what should have been done in year 1 and thus a reboot for both Mac and Bowles.  They showed improvement but we still have a lot of work to do.  I think J&J will allow them to do that for the next two years minimally.  Hence why I say both are not on the hot seat going into next year.  We have come full circle.  LOL

[barnaby8787]

Just now, JetsFan15 said:

And that is my point.  There is no doubt in my mind that his first year had Woody's finger prints all over it.  Year one success lead to year 2 expectations and having to bring back Fitz and Fitz being what he is ... a gamer but not an elite talent and that all caught up with them. 

Hence my statement that this year was what should have been done in year 1 and thus a reboot for both Mac and Bowles.  They showed improvement but we still have a lot of work to do.  I think J&J will allow them to do that for the next two years minimally.  Hence why I say both are not on the hot seat going into next year.  We have come full circle.  LOL

We were 5-11 this year with a depleted roster.  Mac will have 100+ mil to make an impact this year.  He should be able to learn from his mistakes of signing over the hill players, add quality talent in FA, find us a QB, and help Bowles get us more than 5 wins next year.  If we can't win more than 5 games next year after all of that, it's seriously alarming is all.  

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

That's my point though Bobby.  He 100% improved the team year 1, won't argue that, but the signings were not smart and it's what forced the rebuild.  Instead of trying to rip off the bandaid slowly, he went all out and tried to fix the team in one year, which was the wrong approach.  

It’s not the wrong approach if you’re signing young players (which he didn’t). There’s a good amount of young FA talent this offseason, so he absolutely can rebuild and fix all at once.