Report: Browns were offering 4th overall + more for Jimmy G

[Hunter2_1]

I wish Jimmy did go to Cleveland. Had he been the QB to achieve the seemingly impossible, we could say that we groomed him. Just another thing to add to our empire lol. Not to mention - those fans deserve it. They really do.

[tonyto36]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Everything about what the Browns may or may not have offered has proved to be speculation. In the media there were some saying that even in the off season it would be ridiculous for the Browns to trade the 12 let alone the 1. But now I'm supposed to believe they were willing to trade the 4 when it looked he was completely off the market? Either way, at the time, the Niners had the 34 and 2. You really think the threat of the Browns was going to get them the 2? 

Also here's another idea. The Texans were 4-4 at the time, Watson didn't get injured until a couple days after the trade deadline. It literally looked like the Texans were about to win the crap division that was the AFC South and get pushed into the 20-32 range. And I'm pretty sure if Watson got injured the following week, the Browns would never consider it (assuming it was even real). 20-32 vs the 34 and out of the division. It just so happened that at the time the Browns got real lucky with Watson getting hurt and the Texans going 1-8 the rest of the way and we got unlucky that Jimmy played and the Niner's started winning. 

So you weren't going to be able to leverage that pick into the number 2 pick at the time. It would have been absurd.

This whole argument over Jimmy relies solely on the benefit of hindsight. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Going into the season we were told "BB values having a quality back up and they want to see how Brady plays". That meant we were unsure of the course when we could have maximized a trade. Brady was playing at an MVP level, we couldn't cut a realistic deal with Jimmy and couldn't guarantee he would start next year. The deadline was almost up. A decision was made. The 34 at the time was offered for a team in the NFC that we wouldn't play for 3 years with a coach Belichick has a connection to. It isn't rocket science. 

At the time it wasn't the 4. It didn't look like it was going to be close to the 4. And if it was the 4, it wasn't going to be in play. Not to mention their is nothing to corroborate that it was even going to be offered.

The source is a legitimate Browns reporter.  It's akin to if Reiss reported that the Patriots were offering x y or z.  

Sure, and that's all part of the risk of trading first round picks.  You don't know when injuries are going to strike.  That is accounted for in the trade.  

If the Browns were willing to offer a first round pick at any point, if you end up taking the first offer you get- nay, ASKING FOR ONLY A SECOND ROUNDER, then you've completely ruined the transaction for your team.    Belichick is not gun shy.  Belichick is not going to sacrifice a FIRST ROUND PICK so he can have half a season of games from A BACKUP QUARTERBACK WHO LIKELY WON"T PLAY AS HE IS BEHIND ONE OF THE MOST CONSISTENTLY DURABLE QBS IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.   That is just ridiculous.  

It doesn't matter if it was the 4 or not.  It was a first round pick that could easily have fallen to the teens with even moderately fortunate health - acting like the Texans were some team on the rise when they were arguably the THIRD BEST TEAM IN THEIR DIVISION AT FULL STRENGTH, is equally ridiculous.   And with a small, mobile, rookie QB like Watson, is it really that surprising he got hurt?

20 hours ago, Starless said:

Short answer: He wasn't allowed to run the Browns the way he wanted to when he was HC there and Art Modell fired him after moving the team to Baltimore even though he'd assured him previously that he'd retain him.

Longer answer: Read The Education of a Coach

So that prevented him from making two recent trades with the Browns?

He's also made trades with the Colts.  I'm sure he feels buddy buddy with Irsay right?

The notion Belichick wouldn't do a trade with a franchise because he resents them is completely unfounded and dumb.  

21 hours ago, Starless said:

Again, your conclusion doesn't follow from your reasoning or what the known facts are.

My conclusion makes perfect rational sense.   The difference is you want to believe that everything in the article was complete garbage nonsense because it's not pro-Brady.  You don't have to have fifty confirmed sources for an article to be legitimate.   Again, there were specifically quoted stories in the article that any number of now non-Patriots could have easily denied, as well as Brady and his camp could have easily denied as lies.  Yet they didn't give one hard denial for anything.  Compare that to deflategate and how hard the Patriots denied everything - which is a large part of the reason I trusted them.  The Patriots/Brady knew how easily these things could be proven true if they attacked these accounts of Brady so they did the politically smart thing and left it an ambiguous denial.  It's classic politician tactics.   

[1ForTheThumb]

"I think that's just such a poor characterization of anything. In 18 years, I've never celebrated when someone has been traded, been cut," Brady said Tuesday in his weekly interview on sports radio WEEI's Kirk and Callahan Show. "I would say that's disappointing to hear that someone would express that, or a writer would express that, because it's so far from what my beliefs are about my teammates.

I have never been traded or released, but I can imagine how that might feel. I would never feel that way when Jimmy got traded, or Jacoby [Brissett] got traded. I have kept in touch with all those guys. When Matt Cassel was gone -- all these guys I've worked with. I feel like I have had such great relationships with all the quarterbacks I have worked with. I have kept him touch with basically everybody. To characterize that as a certain way is just completely wrong."

“I don’t really know what to say — it’s tough to have a response since it didn’t appear to me to have one on-the-record quote. All I can suggest is don’t believe everything you read,” said Yee, via Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network."

I have a great relationship with both Robert and Tom, and I would throw in there, since it was part of the article, I feel like I have a good relationship with Alex, too," Belichick said, via WEEI. 

"I think we're talking about a lot of inaccuracies here," Belichick said. "I respect Alex and I think I have a good professional relationship with him. I can't speak for him, but I think he would say the same thing."

Yeah, we have the blinders on. No one in Brady's camp, Belichick, or Brady himself have given any denials! Because Kraft, Belichick or Brady aren't suing Wickersham for defamation, or it's not in Federal Court like deflategate, it must be true!

I can't believe you're comparing deflategate, where the Patriots got fined, lost of draft picks, and their HOF QB got suspended to a hit-piece about how Belichick and Brady aren't getting a long. OBVIOUSLY their reactions are going to be different lmao. 

[1ForTheThumb]

Like those are denials lol

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

The source is a legitimate Browns reporter.  It's akin to if Reiss reported that the Patriots were offering x y or z.  

Sure, and that's all part of the risk of trading first round picks.  You don't know when injuries are going to strike.  That is accounted for in the trade.  

If the Browns were willing to offer a first round pick at any point, if you end up taking the first offer you get- nay, ASKING FOR ONLY A SECOND ROUNDER, then you've completely ruined the transaction for your team.    Belichick is not gun shy.  Belichick is not going to sacrifice a FIRST ROUND PICK so he can have half a season of games from A BACKUP QUARTERBACK WHO LIKELY WON"T PLAY AS HE IS BEHIND ONE OF THE MOST CONSISTENTLY DURABLE QBS IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.   That is just ridiculous.  

It doesn't matter if it was the 4 or not.  It was a first round pick that could easily have fallen to the teens with even moderately fortunate health - acting like the Texans were some team on the rise when they were arguably the THIRD BEST TEAM IN THEIR DIVISION AT FULL STRENGTH, is equally ridiculous.   And with a small, mobile, rookie QB like Watson, is it really that surprising he got hurt?

So that prevented him from making two recent trades with the Browns?

He's also made trades with the Colts.  I'm sure he feels buddy buddy with Irsay right?

The notion Belichick wouldn't do a trade with a franchise because he resents them is completely unfounded and dumb.  

My conclusion makes perfect rational sense.   The difference is you want to believe that everything in the article was complete garbage nonsense because it's not pro-Brady.  You don't have to have fifty confirmed sources for an article to be legitimate.   Again, there were specifically quoted stories in the article that any number of now non-Patriots could have easily denied, as well as Brady and his camp could have easily denied as lies.  Yet they didn't give one hard denial for anything.  Compare that to deflategate and how hard the Patriots denied everything - which is a large part of the reason I trusted them.  The Patriots/Brady knew how easily these things could be proven true if they attacked these accounts of Brady so they did the politically smart thing and left it an ambiguous denial.  It's classic politician tactics.   

At the time of the trade the Texans looked like they were easily the best team in the division and on their way to a playoff spot. It was easily looking like a difference between one of the bottom 8 picks of the 1st round vs a top 5 in the 2nd. 

Also you are assuming he made the decision in the off season. You're assuming a lot actually. 

Just so you know several of the Browns beat writers were saying some ridiculous things in the offseason

[1ForTheThumb]

Rappoport was just on WEEI and shot this rumor down. 

-Said it was 2nd and 3rd at the time of the draft and it was essentially the McCarron offer.

But yes, we continue to be the naive ones. Belichick totally passed on #4 overall.

[1ForTheThumb]

 

[Apparition]

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust any report from the Cleveland media that involves Belichick. 

[tonyto36]

On 1/12/2018 at 11:01 AM, 1ForTheThumb said:

 

No, Rapoport is saying that Browns are saying they never offered a first.

Browns:  "Hey Belichick, we're in interested in trading for JG"  *thinks on other end of phone it will cost them the Texans pick*

Belichick:  "We're not"  *Hangsup*

*3 months later*

Browns:  WE NEVER OFFERED A FIRST.

[Pats#1]

[1ForTheThumb]

11 minutes ago, Pats#1 said:

Truly unbelievable.

[lancerman]

21 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

No, Rapoport is saying that Browns are saying they never offered a first.

Browns:  "Hey Belichick, we're in interested in trading for JG"  *thinks on other end of phone it will cost them the Texans pick*

Belichick:  "We're not"  *Hangsup*

*3 months later*

Browns:  WE NEVER OFFERED A FIRST.

So you really think Belichick just never listened to an offer? That's kinda ridiculous. 

[tonyto36]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

So you really think Belichick just never listened to an offer? That's kinda ridiculous. 

Literally every account we've heard was that he wasn't even listening.

Lynch himself said that when they called (ie. the team that you/people are saying Belichick favored and believed would be good for JG), that Belichick wouldn't even pick up the phone in the spring.  

You're right, it is absolutely ridiculous for Belichick to not even listen to offers and basically tell teams to go f themselves and stop bothering him because JG isn't going anywhere, to Belichick dumping him for a 2nd round pick before the trade line without asking any other teams what they would offer.