The Offseason Thread

[TitanRedd]

7 hours ago, TitanSS said:

Well he has 31 receptions in the previous 2 seasons combined, what makes him a #3? He'd behind Taylor at least and possibly even Sharpe unless there's something about him that I'm missing. 

I don't care to improve our #3/#4 WR spot or to even try to add onto that through free agency. I want somone who can take Matthews place as a really good #2. Someone who has already proven they can produce in the NFL. This is his last year under contract.

Edit: Although that is projecting because Davis needs to step it up to take away Matthews spot as our #1, but I see that being less of a problem with Mularkey gone and run-blocking no longer being our WRs most important ability.

Again I see a servicable deep threat, he makes plays when he’s on the field, Some WR do better with a change of scenery Wes walker Miami, Taylor Gabriel Cleveland, Chris hogan. It’s all about offensive philosophy & scheme fit, I think butler can thrive as a #3 WR. Again I prefer Richardson as my 1st option. I think We can get the same production we got from decker out of butler, but more explosive plays. I believe we had a solid receiving core last yr, just no one that can stretch the field. 

[ragevsuall17]

Mel Kiper was one of the one's putting Guice in the 2nd round... but he's learned now... would have mocked him to us, but now has him going 20 to Detroit.  When it's all said and done, I don't think he slips past Washington at 13.  

http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-4/ESPN’s-Mel-Kiper-Has-Titans-Taking-a-RB-in-1st-Round-of-Draft/029e03af-1ac3-4e69-8a54-81147714c76d

Quote

 

Kiper released his second 2018 NFL Mock Draft (2.0) on Wednesday, and he has the Titans picking USC running back Ronald Jones II with the 25th overall pick. The Titans, if you remember, took USC’s LenDale White in the second round of the 2006 draft.

But on a conference call on Wednesday, Kiper also mentioned LSU running back Derrius Guice as a possibility at No.25 in fielding a question from Titans Online.

“Either Derrius Guice from LSU or Ronald Jones would be two (options), and I gave Guice to the Detroit Lions at No. 20, and that allowed Jones to get down there at 25 (for the Titans),” Kiper said. 

 

 

 

He also stated its a real good year for RB, and a good player could be found later.  The reason I'm backing off from RB in the first is this new kid I've started to see mocked to us... and he's become my new 1st round draft crush... Leighton Vander Esch.  Hadn't really paid attention to him, but the more I read and see, the more I like this pick... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/leighton-vander esch?id=2560232....

Quote

 

The 2017 Mountain West Defensive Player of the Year (and team captain) paid off their trip with 12 tackles, three for loss, a sack, and a forced fumble. He was also the Mountain West Championship Game MVP with 16 tackles and a game-sealing interception. The first-team all-conference pick totaled 141 tackles, 8.5 for loss, four sacks, four pass breakups, and four forced fumbles in his junior season.

NFL COMPARISON

 Karlos Dansby (early version)

BOTTOM LINE

 Vander Esch is a loose-hipped, instinctive linebacker who played in 2017 like he had a GPS tracker on the football. His production totals against both the run and pass are rare for being a first-year starter and with a frame that is primed for more muscle, his NFL ceiling is high. Vander Esch might benefit from a reduced role his rookie season while he improves his play strength and becomes more skilled at taking on blocks. He's an every-down linebacker with very good starting potential and the talent to fill up a stat sheet.

 

 

The one year of top notch production is always scary (Dodd anyone)... but the ability is there to be one of the next great ILB's.  He's got the size, speed, burst, is a good tackler, great against the pass, and is a good blitzer.  I'll be keeping a close eye on his offseason, see if he'll be a real possibility to us at 25.

[Chocolateman78]

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks the WR need is overblown. I like Leshur  (sp?) With the guys we have currently. I think our WR corp parallel's the Rams quite favorably. Tajae has the Cooper Kupp role as the supremely gifted route  runner with good hands, but questionable athleticism. Corey Davis takes Sammy Watkins role as the uber talented but often injured x-factor. And Mathews takes Robert Woods role as the underrated #2 in the offense. Add in Taywan Taylor and this offense has talent. I can see a rookie to fill out the back half of the position and take Weems role on STs, but I just don't see a need to put alot of resources into the position, unless we have injury. 

[SerenityNow]

9 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Mel Kiper was one of the one's putting Guice in the 2nd round... but he's learned now... would have mocked him to us, but now has him going 20 to Detroit.  When it's all said and done, I don't think he slips past Washington at 13.  

http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-4/ESPN’s-Mel-Kiper-Has-Titans-Taking-a-RB-in-1st-Round-of-Draft/029e03af-1ac3-4e69-8a54-81147714c76d

 

 

He also stated its a real good year for RB, and a good player could be found later.  The reason I'm backing off from RB in the first is this new kid I've started to see mocked to us... and he's become my new 1st round draft crush... Leighton Vander Esch.  Hadn't really paid attention to him, but the more I read and see, the more I like this pick... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/leighton-vander esch?id=2560232....

 

The one year of top notch production is always scary (Dodd anyone)... but the ability is there to be one of the next great ILB's.  He's got the size, speed, burst, is a good tackler, great against the pass, and is a good blitzer.  I'll be keeping a close eye on his offseason, see if he'll be a real possibility to us at 25.

I like Leighton Vander Esch a lot too. Probably one of the best if not the best coverage backers in this draft. Earlier in the process I was hoping that he'd be available for our 2nd rounder, because nobody was really talking about him. Now, I doubt he'd make it to our 2nd round pick and would more than likely have to be our pick at 25 if we want him. Unless we trade down of course.

[ragevsuall17]

5 minutes ago, Chocolateman78 said:

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks the WR need is overblown. I like Leshur  (sp?) With the guys we have currently. I think our WR corp parallel's the Rams quite favorably. Tajae has the Cooper Kupp role as the supremely gifted route  runner with good hands, but questionable athleticism. Corey Davis takes Sammy Watkins role as the uber talented but often injured x-factor. And Mathews takes Robert Woods role as the underrated #2 in the offense. Add in Taywan Taylor and this offense has talent. I can see a rookie to fill out the back half of the position and take Weems role on STs, but I just don't see a need to put alot of resources into the position, unless we have injury. 

I like Woods only because a WR of his athletic caliber and potential doesn't often hit FA.  He hasn't quite put it all together, but I think he could be one of the top WRs in the NFL.  Other than that, I'm looking for someone to come compete for the #3 spot with Taylor, and who could possibly be a 2 if things click.  I like Moncrief in a one year prove it kinda deal.  I think he has the potential where he can supplant Matthews as the #2... in which case, we could lock him up long term.  

 

4 minutes ago, SerenityNow said:

I like Leighton Vander Esch a lot too. Probably one of the best if not the best coverage backers in this draft. Earlier in the process I was hoping that he'd be available for our 2nd rounder, because nobody was really talking about him. Now, I doubt he'd make it to our 2nd round pick and would more than likely have to be our pick at 25 if we want him. Unless we trade down of course.

I've seen a few places that are saying the Steelers are the floor for him at 28.  I think this offseason will tell us how high he really will go.  I've seen others predict he'll exceed a 30"+ vertical and approach the 7.0 3-cone at his 6'4, 250 lb frame.  Think that last article was taking about the new wave of LBers that will over take the NFL... LBers now more suited to cover those Gronks and Kelces and Delanies, but who also have either the ability to plug the whole in the run game and/or blitz as needed.  VanderEsch seems to be able to do it all.  

[TitanRedd]

4 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said:

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks the WR need is overblown. I like Leshur  (sp?) With the guys we have currently. I think our WR corp parallel's the Rams quite favorably. Tajae has the Cooper Kupp role as the supremely gifted route  runner with good hands, but questionable athleticism. Corey Davis takes Sammy Watkins role as the uber talented but often injured x-factor. And Mathews takes Robert Woods role as the underrated #2 in the offense. Add in Taywan Taylor and this offense has talent. I can see a rookie to fill out the back half of the position and take Weems role on STs, but I just don't see a need to put alot of resources into the position, unless we have injury. 

We need a solid deep threat that can stet h the field rather that’s a #2 or #3 WR. All our WR are pretty much the same other than Taylor, & he’s still raw. But I do like our WR Corp, though decker isn’t worth 4 mill when Tajae can do the same thing 

[TitanSlim]

It funny. I've seen different mock drafts that have us drafting OL, TE, RB, S, ILB, Edge Rusher, CB and DL in the 1st.

We're in a weird spot where I don't think we have any dire, pressing needs but we do need help at those positions(besides TE imo). We can take a number of different routes in free agency and the draft to fullfilling those needs. It's going to be fun to watch.

[Chocolateman78]

48 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

We need a solid deep threat that can stet h the field rather that’s a #2 or #3 WR. All our WR are pretty much the same other than Taylor, & he’s still raw. But I do like our WR Corp, though decker isn’t worth 4 mill when Tajae can do the same thing 

See i disagree, the element of explosive plays that was missing from the offense is something I think Lafleur will fix more so than some middle of the road FA who can run a 4.4. The Rams offense was plenty explosive last year and their fastest receiver (Austin) was like the 5th option in the pass game. Seeing what he did with Conner Kupp, if Davis is healthy then his combination of route running and athleticism could take off year 2.  Especially if Henry is as dominant in the zone run scheme as I think he can be.

[TitanRedd]

1 minute ago, Chocolateman78 said:

See i disagree, the element of explosive plays that was missing from the offense is something I think Lafleur will fix more so than some middle of the road FA who can run a 4.4. The Rams offense was plenty explosive last year and their fastest receiver (Austin) was like the 5th option in the pass game. Seeing what he did with Conner Kupp, if Davis is healthy then his combination of route running and athleticism could take off year 2.  Especially if Henry is as dominant in the zone run scheme as I think he can be.

It’s not about a receiver running 4.4 it’s about a receiver that can challenge a defense vertically. Woods & Watkins also have good speed. I’m not saying we need to throw the bank at a WR, I’m saying we need a #2 or #3 WR that can take the top off the defense. Decker can leave wit tajae coming back.

[Chocolateman78]

Something else I'm seeing alot of that I disagree with is the significance of the need for a change up running back. Don't get me wrong I support having a dynamic #2 back, but taking that guy in round 1 is beyond me. The first pick should be defense, best player available and if those guys start coming off the board earlier than expected, I support trading up to secure an impact defender over staying at #25 and being in a situation where a back is the BPA and no defenders are worthy of the selection.

This defense needs an infusion, the age is starting to show quickly. particularly, its showing at the linebacker spots which are a premium for a 3-4 defense. On the other hand this running back class is deep. Lets not forget the best two rookie runners were 3rd round picks. I love me some Sony Michel, Ronald jones, or Derrius Guice, but I'd rather grab two impact defenders or maybe even an impact interior Olineman and hopefully still be able to pick up a Rashaad Penny, Akrum Wadley, Mark Walton, or Kevin Ballage later in the draft. 

[titans0021]

 

[TitanSS]

Tajae Sharpe is nowhere near Cooper Kupp in terms of talent. He was vastly overrated by Titans fans. Matthews is on the last year of his contract. No one on our team has ever exibitied the explosive element that Sammy Watkins has. 

Basically our WR corp is Matthews who has proven he can be an average #2, Corey Davis who has potential, but hasn't proven anything, and Taywan Taylor who is just a real uncertainty. I'm not even going to touch on Tajae Sharpe.

Another year with an average guy who struggles to get any separation and a bunch of unprovens. I'm tired of potential. I want production.

[titans0021]

On 2/21/2018 at 12:07 PM, ragevsuall17 said:

The statement that he's a RAC monster is also a bit misleading.  511 is 2nd amongst WRs, but the 4.6 YAC/catch would not be anywhere near the top of the list, even excluding RBs.  Tate, Julio, Allen, AB, Tyreek, Kelce, Thielen, Cobb, JSS, Kupp (!), Gronk, Crowder, Adams, T Williams, Wilson... etc, etc, etc all averaged more YAC/R than Landry last year.  

I guess my issue continues to be why we're exclusively focusing on the year where he had essentially zero time to prepare with an aging, out of shape quarterback whose biggest strength throughout his career (his arm) had clearly declined? If last season's numbers were near his career averages, I could understand talking almost exclusively about them, but they weren't. He averaged almost two full yards more per reception in his first three seasons (1.8 if we'd like to be specific). He averaged 2.1 yards more YAC/catch in his last season with a competent quarterback than he did with Cutler. I can't find a full list of YAC/catch, but based on the list I'm looking at, I'd venture a guess that 6.74 YAC/catch would likely push him far closer to the top among wide receivers.

This has been what has baffled me from the first time we discussed it. Tannehill wasn't the same QB in 2014. We can make the argument that he was in 2015 and 2016 (at least statistically). And in those two years, Landry caught 204 passes (69% of his targets), averaged 11.2 yards per catch and 6 yards YAC/catch. And yet we're saying that a guy like Jerrick McKinnon, who had a career-high 421 receiving yards last year, can effectively fill a similar role as Jarvis Landry? 

Honestly, that's why I tried to leave this discussion behind. Because I can't even see the argument. Normally in these discussions, I can at least get the other side's perspective. But I can't, in any way, fathom the side that says you can just plug in a competent pass-catching back into Landry's role and get similar production. Beyond that, referring to Landry's best year as an outlier is silly to me. It was his third year in the league, his first working with a competent offensive mind, and it was the first time he had played with an average quarterback. Isn't that just natural receiver development? Hasn't a WR's third year in the league long been talked about as almost a defining season? Of course there was statistical regression when he lost that quarterback and was stuck with Jay this season. With a quality OC and a better QB, I'd be far, far more willing to bet on Landry being closer to 2016 Jarvis Landry than 2017 Jarvis Landry. Particularly in terms of yards per catch and YAC/catch.

But again, unless we trade for him, it's all pretty much a useless discussion. Unless Indy, Jacksonville or Houston trades for him and then we can go back to discussing just how much of an impact he can have on an offense.

[titans0021]

15 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Tajae Sharpe is nowhere near Cooper Kupp in terms of talent.

What really gets me with Tajae is this continued perception that he's a great route runner when, throughout his only season in the NFL, he was a sloppy route runner that caught less than 50% of his targets and directly caused a few of Marcus' interceptions because he lazily came out of his breaks and didn't fight for the football.

[TitanSS]

I dont think Landry is a bad player whose role can be replaced with a RB, but I also think he's worth about half of that franchise tag they're getting him for. Good player, just not a role I'd pay a lot of money for.

I don't think they tagged him to pay him. They have every intent of trading him.

I'm from Missouri so all if my friends are Chiefs fans. Monday they were talking about Peters like he may be traded and then today we see the report on NFL.com that he's a possible trade this year.

I would love to make that trade if it's for less than a first round pick.