Glen Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: I think the only way to really police it would be to force guys to play them at their new spot for all 16 games. But what happens after that? Can guys just move them back for seven games the following season and keep the extra tag? Sure hypothetically. But what's stopping people from doing this with rookies? I'd hypothetically just play Tre at FS for 9 games and 7 at cb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalamania Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, iPwn said: Rather than requiring 16 games, can we get a competition committee together with at least one team from each division and vote on certain situations like this? Every offseason, you can bring one single situation up to the committee, present your case and let them vote on whether you should get a tag reduction based on the situation and intent. I know the rules were put in place to make judgement calls non-existent and to make sure everyone had exact rules to follow. I just think sometimes it’s too strict. Everyone should get a vote if we're looking at changing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Remixxxxxxx said: Everyone should get a vote if we're looking at changing something. If you think you can get all 16 owners to each vote on 5-16 tag situations every season, sure. But I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 What happens if someone wants to bench their QB for a season and tank? Would their QB be worth one tag the following season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, bucsfan333 said: What happens if someone wants to bench their QB for a season and tank? Would their QB be worth one tag the following season? I'd say no. Should be required to move them to another playing position that is reasonable. Ex 3-4 olb at 4-3 olb is reaonable. QB at kicker is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The rookie thing really complicates things. Take my situation for example - I have Dak and Michael Thomas on the bench. Both of them were absolutely terrible when I tried to get them playtime in season 13, so I left them on the bench for 13 and 14 to keep them at one tag. Now season 15 is here and I still have no idea how they’re going to be. Michael Thomas *should* be good, but who knows? I have no idea if Dak is going to be good. With Fournette starting for me, if I test Dak and Thomas for even one game, one of those three is costing me 3 tags to keep. It seems like a situation like that if it got presented, most everyone would agree that neither Dak nor Thomas should cost more than 1 tag if it’s clear I pulled them after just 2-3 games when I realized they still weren’t ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gmen4ev said: I'd say no. Should be required to move them to another playing position that is reasonable. Ex 3-4 olb at 4-3 olb is reaonable. QB at kicker is not. What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalamania Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, iPwn said: If you think you can get all 16 owners to each vote on 5-16 tag situations every season, sure. But I doubt it. You give everyone a timeframe to vote - put the votes up for 48 hours and tally whoever decided to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, iPwn said: Rather than requiring 16 games, can we get a competition committee together with at least one team from each division and vote on certain situations like this? Every offseason, you can bring one single situation up to the committee, present your case and let them vote on whether you should get a tag reduction based on the situation and intent. I know the rules were put in place to make judgement calls non-existent and to make sure everyone had exact rules to follow. I just think sometimes it’s too strict. So whether your player gets permitted to qualify for a lesser keeper price could be determined by the opinion of your division rival? Please tell me you understand how that's a bad idea. Nacho implemented the rule as such so that there isn't any room for anyone's 'opinion' or 'perspective' that might differ from the rest. Everyone follows the same rules. You start forming committees and suddenly you have certain owners who hold more sway over the inner workings of the league. The rule might not be ideal for a Guard who played a season at tackle or a 4-3 DE who is now playing as a 3-4 DE, or a safety who once was a cornerback but those scenarios are vastly few and far in between. The Osemeles and Vernons of the league are greatly outnumbered by the amount of potential exploitation this could see. And as the commissioner already mentioned, a full 16 game requirement might not work as there have been attempts from the get-go to out-maneuver the system. 99% of the time it works perfectly fine and prevents manipulation of tags, and as bucs mentioned, also preserves the free agent draft pool. Heck, this is a perfect example. You as an owner feel it's too strict, I feel that it's good to have cut and dry rules. If you are on the competition committee, and you have 3 other owners who think in line with you, even if the majority of the league were in agreement with me, we are no longer in determination of how it's done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The more we talk about it, the more I prefer how it is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said: So whether your player gets permitted to qualify for a lesser keeper price could be determined by the opinion of your division rival? Please tell me you understand how that's a bad idea. Nacho implemented the rule as such so that there isn't any room for anyone's 'opinion' or 'perspective' that might differ from the rest. Everyone follows the same rules. You start forming committees and suddenly you have certain owners who hold more sway over the inner workings of the league. The rule might not be ideal for a Guard who played a season at tackle or a 4-3 DE who is now playing as a 3-4 DE, or a safety who once was a cornerback but those scenarios are vastly few and far in between. The Osemeles and Vernons of the league are greatly outnumbered by the amount of potential exploitation this could see. And as the commissioner already mentioned, a full 16 game requirement might not work as there have been attempts from the get-go to out-maneuver the system. 99% of the time it works perfectly fine and prevents manipulation of tags, and as bucs mentioned, also preserves the free agent draft pool. Heck, this is a perfect example. You as an owner feel it's too strict, I feel that it's good to have cut and dry rules. If you are on the competition committee, and you have 3 other owners who think in line with you, even if the majority of the league were in agreement with me, we are no longer in determination of how it's done. Then give everyone a vote. I don’t care. I just think these situations should be able to be looked at case by case rather than sticking it to people trying to play fairly simply because Harper once abused the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I vote to keep everything as is. I'd also vote against the new rookie rule, but that's already set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, iPwn said: The rookie thing really complicates things. Take my situation for example - I have Dak and Michael Thomas on the bench. Both of them were absolutely terrible when I tried to get them playtime in season 13, so I left them on the bench for 13 and 14 to keep them at one tag. Now season 15 is here and I still have no idea how they’re going to be. Michael Thomas *should* be good, but who knows? I have no idea if Dak is going to be good. With Fournette starting for me, if I test Dak and Thomas for even one game, one of those three is costing me 3 tags to keep. It seems like a situation like that if it got presented, most everyone would agree that neither Dak nor Thomas should cost more than 1 tag if it’s clear I pulled them after just 2-3 games when I realized they still weren’t ready. So what you are saying is that you took a risk in drafting players coming off their rookie seasons and showing great promise highly in the first round, knowing full well that the grading system is based off the past 3 years of production and that it would likely take 2 or maybe even 3 seasons to show up at an elite level, and now you want to not be punished for having made that gamble. Some folks take risks on young rookies and hope they pan out in the future. It's worked out well in some situations, like TK3 with Joey Bosa and Aaron Donald for khodder at the time. Other times the player ends up flopping. Sometimes they get injured or have limited playing time and won't be worth anything in the short term, like Corey Davis (Titans WR) drafted #2 in the 2nd round by the Predators. His production as a #2 WR was minimal and won't really be much better these next two sim seasons. Some decide they would rather take the top immediate talent. It used to be that taking a rookie in the first round was a huge gamble, as everyone knew it was practically nothing for the upcoming season and a shot at an elite prospect a year or two down the line. Since the implementation of the new rookie scale, it's a huge benefit to the owners who like to gamble early on those young prospects. Your scenario in which you don't know what you have is exactly the sort of gamble that owners must make in determining immediate impact vs future impact. It sounds like you want to have your cake, and eat it too. And for the record, you can test those players out. 2 games, in fact. That's why Nacho added the preseason. It won't guarantee that the results will hold over a full season or anything close, but you certainly have an opportunity to see what they can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I agree with Ruskie. And I feel all icky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Like I remember when the league first started and the first several seasons into it. It was mostly focused on how players performed their past season, or recent seasons. Rookies were basically an afterthought, drafted mid-round for the elite prospects that went top 5 in the NFL draft, because owners knew they wouldn't outperform the veterans. Now we have added incentives to take a gamble on youth, so the balance shifts from veteran-immediate contributor vs rookie-future contributor into favoring taking a chance on a younger guy who can still contribute seasons 2 & 3 (after their rookie year), yet we still want more chances to see whether going all youth movement works out or not? Nacho has stated that the purpose of the league isn't necessarily the keeper aspect, that was done so we could have a core of players to keep around and not rebuild fully each season, but the draft aspect is the big draw. The proposals for even further youth incentivizing will shift the dynamic of the league from 'what players had good NFL seasons last year(s)' and go into 'who can draft the best rookies to pay off'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts