GongKong Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 He sucked in st Louis too. He isn't a good coach. I expect 2 years MAX. But would bet 1 year and done in NYC. He just isn't a good coach overall. He gets credit for things that aren't his doing for the very few years sonething went right for a team. I like NYC. I would prefer they were at min competitive if not actually a good team. I forsee them being a complete failure for at least 5 more years now. I forsee this to be a terrible move by them. Only time will tell. But I would bet I'm right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, GongKong said: He sucked in st Louis too. He isn't a good coach. I expect 2 years MAX. But would bet 1 year and done in NYC. He just isn't a good coach overall. He gets credit for things that aren't his doing for the very few years sonething went right for a team. I like NYC. I would prefer they were at min competitive if not actually a good team. I forsee them being a complete failure for at least 5 more years now. I forsee this to be a terrible move by them. Only time will tell. But I would bet I'm right He’s was in STL for one year on a terrible roster. He’s not a miracle worker. So when things go right he gets no credit but when things go wrong it’s all on him? That’s a nice position you put yourself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: So when things go right he gets no credit but when things go wrong it’s all on him? I don't think that's what @GongKong was saying. When things go wrong, it's due to his failures. When things go right, it's not because of him - rather another coach or the team's talent carrying him. It's not that far fetched. For instance, if Josh McDaniels bombs as a HC in Indy, you can separate his success with NE and his failures as a head coach (Denver, Indy). You can say he was carried by Brady and Belichick in success, but was responsible for poor teams in other steads. It sounds like that's what the other guy was saying here. Don't really have a stance on Shurmur so I'm not arguing for or against. Just stating that there are tons of players or coaches that get credit for success that they are not directly responsible for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: I don't think that's what @GongKong was saying. When things go wrong, it's due to his failures. When things go right, it's not because of him - rather another coach or the team's talent carrying him. It's not that far fetched. For instance, if Josh McDaniels bombs as a HC in Indy, you can separate his success with NE and his failures as a head coach (Denver, Indy). You can say he was carried by Brady and Belichick in success, but was responsible for poor teams in other steads. It sounds like that's what the other guy was saying here. Don't really have a stance on Shurmur so I'm not arguing for or against. Just stating that there are tons of players or coaches that get credit for success that they are not directly responsible for. I understood what he said and it’s still stupid even the way you explained it. No offense. Edited January 22, 2018 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: I understood what he said and it’s still stupid even the way you explained it. No offense. Okay...so Gus Bradley had coached a GOAT defense in Seattle. He coached an awful team in Jacksonville. One team was talented, one wasn't. Using your logic he either deserves a ton of credit for Seattle's GOAT-title (different DCs had success with that team/under Carroll) or no blame for Jacksonville's awful play. Coaches who are JAGs will often coach to the team's talent. When things are good with them, they usually have great players or other great staff members. When they're bad, they usually don't have the talent and their inability shows out. Edited January 22, 2018 by Yin-Yang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Okay...so Gus Bradley had coached a GOAT defense in Seattle. He coached an awful team in Jacksonville. One team was talented, one wasn't. Using your logic he either deserves a ton of credit for Seattle's GOAT-title (different DCs had success with that team/under Carroll) or no blame for Jacksonville's awful play. Coaches who are JAGs will often coach to the team's talent. When things are good with them, they usually have great players or other great staff members. When they're bad, they usually don't have the talent and their inability shows out. Head Coach and Coordinators aren’t the same thing. I thought we all understood that by now. And that’s not my logic at all because I haven’t said anything close to that.Every situation is different. You can’t apply one situation for all. I don’t even want to get into who deserves credit for what because it’s silly and majority of the time we don’t know. I’m just saying that his logic was stupid. Edited January 22, 2018 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Head Coach and Coordinators aren’t the same thing. I thought we all understood that by now. And that’s not my logic at all because I haven’t said anything close to that.Every situation is different. You can’t apply one situation for all. I don’t even want to get into who deserves credit for what because it’s silly and majority of the time we don’t know. I’m just saying that his logic was stupid. Fine, be obtuse if you'd like. It doesn't have to be Gus Bradley. Use Jon Gruden if you want. Or John Fox. Lovie Smith. Doesn't matter. Fact is, you can pretty easily say "[x coach] deserves all/most/majority blame for this failure, and doesn't deserve all/most/majority credit for this success". If you think it's illogical or stupid, then power to you. Stupid is as stupid does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Fine, be obtuse if you'd like. It doesn't have to be Gus Bradley. Use Jon Gruden if you want. Or John Fox. Lovie Smith. Doesn't matter. Fact is, you can pretty easily say "[x coach] deserves all/most/majority blame for this failure, and doesn't deserve all/most/majority credit for this success". If you think it's illogical or stupid, then power to you. Stupid is as stupid does. Oh sure you can say it, but facts is you don’t know who deserves credit or blame for the failure or success. It’s entirely possible for somebody to succeed in one spot and fail in another. You even just said if McDaniels fails as in Indy then you can say he was carried by Brady and Belichick, with no context. No explanation. Just 2+2=4. Which is the whole issue this nonsense. Edited January 22, 2018 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Oh sure you can say it, but facts is you don’t know who deserves credit or blame for the failure or success. You even just said if McDaniels fails as in Indy then you can say he was carried by Brady and Belichick, with no context. No explanation. Just 2+2=4. Which is the whole issue this nonsense. Okay so now we, on a discussion forum, can’t assign blame to coaches because we’re not close enough to the situation... I feel like we’re heading down the “McAdoo isn’t a problem for the Giants” road that we went down earlier this season - so I have no need of furthering the discussion. Hope Shurmur works for the Giants. Edited January 22, 2018 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Okay so now we, on a discussion forum, can’t assign blame to coaches because we’re not close enough to the situation... I feel like we’re heading down the “McAdoo isn’t a problem for the Giants” road that we went down earlier this season - so I have no need of furthering the discussion. Hope Shurmur works for the Giants. For the most part, yes. For instance your McDaniels example was just a shining example of that. Edited January 22, 2018 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kparty15 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 After last nights game the Giants can have Shurmur. Yes he made Case Keenum look decent for a few weeks, but his play calling last night was terrible and he should’ve started Bradford over Keenum during the playoffs if Bradford was healthy. He’s a nice enough guy though and I like him a lot as a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Kparty15 said: After last nights game the Giants can have Shurmur. Yes he made Case Keenum look decent for a few weeks, but his play calling last night was terrible and he should’ve started Bradford over Keenum during the playoffs if Bradford was healthy. He’s a nice enough guy though and I like him a lot as a person. Personnel is not his call its Mike Zimmer's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiffyJag Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Kparty15 said: After last nights game the Giants can have Shurmur. Yes he made Case Keenum look decent for a few weeks, but his play calling last night was terrible and he should’ve started Bradford over Keenum during the playoffs if Bradford was healthy. He’s a nice enough guy though and I like him a lot as a person. "Look Pat, I know you were the best OC in football all year, led us to having one of the best rushing offenses in the league even though our RB went down week 4 and managed to get one game from the superbowl with a journeyman backup QB playing out of his mind in your system, but you called one bad game against a top 5 defense. You're done." just shockingly ungrateful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jaguarfan said: "Look Pat, I know you were the best OC in football all year, led us to having one of the best rushing offenses in the league even though our RB went down week 4 and managed to get one game from the superbowl with a journeyman backup QB playing out of his mind in your system, but you called one bad game against a top 5 defense. You're done." just shockingly ungrateful. The knee-jerk, hot takes on this forum are out of control man. Also If there’s one thing I hate is when people complain about play calling. Those are the worst. Worst than people complaining about officiating. Edited January 22, 2018 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 NYG officially hire Shurmur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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