Alex Smith to be traded to Washington for 3rd round pick and CB Kendall Fuller; agrees to extension

[squire12]

1 minute ago, childofpudding said:

Sure, but isn't the whole conversation a hypothetical? Washington could tag him. Cousins could sign it. Cousins could not sign it.

The way the Redskins kind of came out and **** on Cousins last offseason, I wouldn't be that surprised if he stuck it to them if he had the opportunity, rather than playing nice so they can get a draft pick for him. From Cousins' perspective, the Redskins have been sticking it to him for two years. Why wouldn't he return the favor if he had a chance?

Because Cwood believes Cousins can't wait 3 weeks to get his long term deal.   He could wait 3 weeks easily to stick it to the WAS franchise.

[Jakuvious]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm struggling to find a good analogy, but the best one I can find is getting a realtor involved when you're selling a house.  It's not like Cousins is going to want to go to a team that the Redskins will flat out refuse to trade to.  Dallas has Dak Prescott, Philadelphia has Carson Wentz, and New York has Eli Manning and poised to use their first round pick on a QB.  The market for Cousins isn't going to change one iota unless Washington pushes the issue and asks for some outrageous return.  That isn't going to happen, unless Dan Snyder loses his mind.

I'm not saying he's going to want to go to a team that the Redskins despise. All it takes is him to prefer the team offering the second best trade package, not the first, for him to get shafted by the Redskins. If he wants to be a Jaguar, but the Browns offer more picks, the Redskins can tell him to go screw himself and trade him to the Browns anyway. Unload the hostage situation on another team. The Redskins don't give a damn. And the Browns might not care whether he's their first choice either. Allowing a trade he gets no actual say in the matter. If Cousins allows a trade in that situation, he's opening himself up to forfeiting all leverage for another year.

If the Redskins were to franchise tag Cousins, the smart thing for him to do is just not sign it. Play chicken with them. If he does not sign the tag he can't be traded, but he still threatens Washington's offseason mobility. Cousins has less to lose in that move than Washington does. And the motivation isn't to stick it to Washington, it's just to get to chose where he goes. Which is a substantial perk of free agency. You keep saying Washington would have weeks to negotiate a trade, but that's completely irrelevant if Cousins doesn't sign the tender. And there's an established history in the NFL of playing not signing the tender until they get what they want already.

Now I don't think Cousins would actually hold them hostage long term, but he doesn't need to. Just the threat of that $35M is something Washington has to consider. You don't tag a player without having to accept and plan for the eventuality that you actually have to pay that money. Otherwise you're playing Russian roulette with your roster.

[CWood21]

Just now, squire12 said:

Franchise 2x

Not offering him a contract that he feels he is worth

Franchise tagged a 3rd time.

Not sure how much more reasoning that this.   These are the facts of the process as we are discussing them.  It is pretty evident from the dealings that Cousins does not look favorably on the WAS front office and how they have treated him.  

He's collecting more money than most QBs did this year.  The only thing Cousins has lost out on is long-term security.  Kirk Cousins had the 3rd highest cap hit of ALL NFL players this year.  Of course he's okay with getting a huge guarantee.  Washington has the motivation to make a trade happen, not Cousins.

[Packerraymond]

CWood, what is the benefit of Cousins signing the tag that he can't get on the open market? 

Signing the tag gets him the chance to sign a long term deal with one team of Washington's choosing.

Not signing the tag gets him the chance to sign with 32 teams of his choosing.

What would you take?

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

He wants to hit FA. There's your non hypothetical situation I've probably said 30 times now.

We know he wants to hit FA.  Unfortunately teams don't operate under what players want.  And there's no reason to believe that the market is going to suddenly dry up because he got franchise tagged.  Kirk Cousins wants the middle man eliminated.

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

What makes you think that Denver would offer a different contract via trade than in FA?  If they believe he's their franchise QB, they're going to move heaven and earth to get him in Denver.  The only way that it doesn't happen is if Washington asks for some outrageous return.  Given Washington's need to open up cap space, that's not likely.

Why does Cousins want to go to a team that has to give up an asset to acquire him when he can wait 3 weeks, screw over WAS (for tagging him 3 times) and then sign with that same team and save them the asset.   Seems like a smart play by Cousins to make the team he is going to better by not having to give up an asset in the transaction

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

Because Cwood believes Cousins can't wait 3 weeks to get his long term deal.   He could wait 3 weeks easily to stick it to the WAS franchise.

No.  You're misconstruing my words.  I said that the Redskins have 3 weeks to come up with an amicable trade for both Washington and Kirk Cousins.  Your hypothetical is based on the same logic.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

We know he wants to hit FA.  Unfortunately teams don't operate under what players want.  And there's no reason to believe that the market is going to suddenly dry up because he got franchise tagged.  Kirk Cousins wants the middle man eliminated.

Well fortunately for Cousins all he has to do is not sign the franchise tag and then he's a FA come March 14th.

[CWood21]

Just now, squire12 said:

Why does Cousins want to go to a team that has to give up an asset to acquire him when he can wait 3 weeks, screw over WAS (for tagging him 3 times) and then sign with that same team and save them the asset.   Seems like a smart play by Cousins to make the team he is going to better by not having to give up an asset in the transaction

Because that franchise tag doesn't go on the books UNTIL he's signed.  Think of it as a place holder for a lack of a better term.  Until Kirk Cousins signs that franchise tag, he's not officially on the books and the Redskins are still free to sign FA.  If they strike a deal with a FA, they can rescind the franchise tag and collect their compensatory pick in 2019.  IF they franchise tag him, he's under contract and the Redskins can't rescind the franchise tag at that point.

[pwny]

Just now, CWood21 said:

A 2nd round pick is a small price to pay in order to sign a long-term contract for a franchise QB.  If the Jaguars were that infatuated with Cousins, they're going to sign Cousins to that contract with the 2nd round pick being the price of doing business.  It's no different than the Alex Smith trade.  The Redskins gave up a 3rd round pick and Kendall Fuller for the right to negotiate a long-term deal with Alex Smith.

Every team has a value of what a player is worth in total resources.

Call them beans if you want. Each player is worth x amount of beans to each team. This factors in draft picks to acquire the player, money, guaranteeds, etc. Every team has a max number of beans that they’re willing to exchange in order to have the services of a player. If the acquisition of a player takes beans allotted from the draft pick, it has to come out of somewhere else; the contract.

You can’t just say “oh, pay him all the contract beans you absolutely want and then also pay some more draft pick beans”. Because if they were actually willing to pay those extra beans that are afforded for the draft pick, those are beans Cousins could be getting directly.

[CWood21]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Well fortunately for Cousins all he has to do is not sign the franchise tag and then he's a FA come March 14th.

His contract is not guaranteed until he signs.  It's a placeholder.  Nothing more.  The Redskins can still negotiate contracts, and if they strike a deal with a FA they want then they can simply rescind that franchise tag.

[Jakuvious]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We know he wants to hit FA.  Unfortunately teams don't operate under what players want.  And there's no reason to believe that the market is going to suddenly dry up because he got franchise tagged.  Kirk Cousins wants the middle man eliminated.

Teams operate under what players want when players have an absurd amount of leverage on them like Cousins does.

[CWood21]

Just now, iPwn said:

Every team has a value of what a player is worth in total resources.

Call them beans if you want. Each player is worth x amount of beans to each team. This factors in draft picks to acquire the player, money, guaranteeds, etc. Every team has a max number of beans that they’re willing to exchange in order to have the services of a player. If the acquisition of a player takes beans allotted from the draft pick, it has to come out of somewhere else; the contract.

You can’t just say “oh, pay him all the contract beans you absolutely want and then also pay some more draft pick beans”. Because if they were actually willing to pay those extra beans that are afforded for the draft pick, those are beans Cousins could be getting directly.

I very much doubt that that a team is going to scoff at giving up a 2nd round pick in order to secure a franchise QB.  Is a 2nd round pick and a $25M/year contract really that much to pay, when your alternative is what, Case Keenum?

[pwny]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Because that franchise tag doesn't go on the books UNTIL he's signed.

Incorrect

[Packerraymond]

Just now, CWood21 said:

His contract is not guaranteed until he signs.  It's a placeholder.  Nothing more.  The Redskins can still negotiate contracts, and if they strike a deal with a FA they want then they can simply rescind that franchise tag.

That's what I've said since my first post. What happens to Cousins when they rescind that tag? So why is he going to ever sign it?