Jaegybomb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: The good Donte Jackson? If someone suggests taking "Jackson" at 14 it pretty much has to be Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 This won’t be popular but I see it as Donte>Josh but hey that’s just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said: If someone suggests taking "Jackson" at 14 it pretty much has to be Josh. Josh is the Jackson that can't back pedal, right? 3 minutes ago, Rodjahs12 said: This won’t be popular but I see it as Donte>Josh but hey that’s just me. Why do you see Donte as better than Josh? At this point I would be happy with either Jackson, or even both. Any Jackson not named Stonewall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Josh is the Jackson that can't back pedal, right? Why do you see Donte as better than Josh? You partially answered your own question. I see Josh Jackson as extremely scheme limited and very much worry about having to cater your coverages around his inability to play man coverage consistently. You can’t teach his ball skills which I consider truly elite but without them I don’t see a prospect you’d draft anywhere before the 4th round or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Josh is the Jackson that can't back pedal, right? Why do you see Donte as better than Josh? He can... he just isn’t smooth at it. He gets too high. He is better moving forward, from his days training as a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Green19 said: He can... he just isn’t smooth at it. He gets too high. He is better moving forward, from his days training as a WR. Can't imagine Whitt couldn't teach him how to back pedal! What about Rodjahs12's concern over Josh Jackson's inability to play man coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Can't imagine Whitt couldn't teach him how to back pedal! What about Rodjahs12's concern over Josh Jackson's inability to play man coverage? The worry about man coverage with Jackson is his long speed. He doesn’t have recovery speed ala Shields. He gets beat off the line in press he is a liability. Jackson knows this though, you can tell this by how he plays. He bails a lot. It is why most feel he is strictly a “zone” guy. He gets to a spot reads the QB and becomes a WR. But he has all the tools to be a great man corner. Look at Sherman and Peters (who Jackson compares too greatly in measurables)... they aren’t the fastest either. But they know what their strengths are. If you like Jackson the hope is with good coaching he can learn to use his length and strength to wreck timing and routes. If you dislike Jackson you point to his lack of athleticism and him being physical at the wrong part of routes (he hits and grabs at the top of routes). For me... I trust Whitt to get him right. That length and playmaker ability is rare. And it’s not like he is crazy slow, he ran 4.56. So I’m interested and hopefully for him, but understand others worries. I’d just pound the table for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Green19 said: The worry about man coverage with Jackson is his long speed. He doesn’t have recovery speed ala Shields. He gets beat off the line in press he is a liability. Jackson knows this though, you can tell this by how he plays. He bails a lot. It is why most feel he is strictly a “zone” guy. He gets to a spot reads the QB and becomes a WR. But he has all the tools to be a great man corner. Look at Sherman and Peters (who Jackson compares too greatly in measurables)... they aren’t the fastest either. But they know what their strengths are. If you like Jackson the hope is with good coaching he can learn to use his length and strength to wreck timing and routes. If you dislike Jackson you point to his lack of athleticism and him being physical at the wrong part of routes (he hits and grabs at the top of routes). For me... I trust Whitt to get him right. That length and playmaker ability is rare. And it’s not like he is crazy slow, he ran 4.56. So I’m interested and hopefully for him, but understand others worries. I’d just pound the table for him. Do you think there is a reasonable chance he is available at our pick in round two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Packerraymond said: I 100% disagree. Tramon was #3 in ARI, if Gute signed him as his #1 to open camp, he needs his brain checked. Tramon is a vet they wanted to add to the room, he's a depth signing and a presence in that room. He's pretty much never been the #1 with Woodson on the roster, and now at 35 he is? No way. Tramon is insurance, not the solution. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he their 2nd best CB and the best to play opposite of Patrick Peterson since Antonio Cromartie? He might have been the "#3 CB" by name value, but his play indicated otherwise. And no, I'm not arguing that he's the solution. I'm arguing that he's a temporary fix, insurance as you so put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, squire12 said: SO it is OK for you to place Tramon WIlliams as the #1CB by default but not OK for others to have Kevin King the #1 CB by default? That seems like stellar reasoning. Based off what both of them did in 2017, yes. Will it change by the end of the season? I sure as hell hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Do you think there is a reasonable chance he is available at our pick in round two? Nope. He will be a first like peters. GB could trade back into the first and get him... around the 22nd pick (where peters went). the “next” guys after him are short: Alexander and Hughes. A team that wants big and long will take Jackson quick. Again everyone cares about speed... and I get it. But speed can mean short a lot. Imagine Julio Jones against some of those guys. GB showed with King they want length and as much speed that can come with it. Jackson offers that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 39 minutes ago, Green19 said: Nope. He will be a first like peters. GB could trade back into the first and get him... around the 22nd pick (where peters went). the “next” guys after him are short: Alexander and Hughes. A team that wants big and long will take Jackson quick. Again everyone cares about speed... and I get it. But speed can mean short a lot. Imagine Julio Jones against some of those guys. GB showed with King they want length and as much speed that can come with it. Jackson offers that. Those short arms scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Those short arms scare me. They are better then Randall’s and just a hair under Kings. 7/8 of an inch under Kings to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Green19 said: They are better then Randall’s and just a hair under Kings. 7/8 of an inch under Kings to be exact. Are we referring to Donte Jackson or Josh Jackson? Because I was talking about Donte Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 It isn’t just Jackson’s lack of top end speed that bother me in man with him. He struggles to flip his hips on top of his lackluster acceleration and that spell should huge trouble on double moves. Frankly his instincts work against him in some ways because he isn’t going to be jumping routes the way he was at Iowa against good pro QBs with velocity. He’s going to be a very good player for a zone heavy team, but he’s going to be reliant on creating turnovers and I fear if he doesn’t give you those in bunches he will really struggle in stretches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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