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PapaShogun

Should the NFL bring back a farm system like NFL Europe?

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21 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Those players are few and far between vs the field though. It's the Kurt Warner argument all over again. These types of rare and unfounded talent have the regional combines at their disposal. 

Combines aren't the same as playing in a game though and getting reps in a training camp with a specific team. A lot of undrafted players simply don't have the opportunity a 2nd round draft choice does. The deck is completely stacked against them in terms of making an impact simply because they aren't giving the invested time an early round selection would get. There are probably tons of players that never got their shine on because of this reason. Now you could easily say "well they should have done better in college", but it's not always that simple. Everyone's situation is different. Some folks are a victim of circumstance. For example, it's not really Romo's fault he wasn't given a scholarship to a big time school. Same with John Randle. 

Edited by PapaShogun

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13 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

You've got to be kidding me with this garbage statement.

*Looks at name of poster, chuckles a bit and says to self "ok I get it now" and moves on*

 

 

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40 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Combines aren't the same as playing in a game though and getting reps in a training camp with a specific team. A lot of undrafted players simply don't have the opportunity a 2nd round draft choice does. The deck is completely stacked against them in terms of making an impact simply because they aren't giving the invested time an early round selection would get. There are probably tons of players that never got their shine on because of this reason. Now you could easily say "well they should have done better in college", but it's not always that simple. Everyone's situation is different. Some folks are a victim of circumstance. For example, it's not really Romo's fault he wasn't given a scholarship to a big time school. Same with John Randle. 

I agree that you can't replicate a real game and I get your point. But how does any of this change with a developmental league? The players are still going to have to earn those same opportunities(or lack of) that they have now. Now you could say, "well it gives them more time to hone their skills and be better prepared for NFL" but there no guarantees in that either because this isn't putting them in a real game either. And when I say "real game" I mean an NFL game. From that standpoint alone, how is this any different than what college offers now? 

If a player lights it up in this new development league there is still no guarantees that he isn't going to piss the bed as soon as he touches an NFL field when he's no longer playing against scrubs.

Besides, again is there really that much unnoticed talent out there to justify having an entire league to begin with? Because I just don't see it. If a player is good enough to be recognized then we will know about him just like we do with Priest Holmes, Kurt Warner and John Randle in the current system. 

Edited by JustAnotherFan

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42 minutes ago, youngosu said:

They ain't that rare. I am willing to bet your favorite team has at least 2 starters that weren't drafted. 

 

Romo and Priest are rare, especially the latter. You aren't going to find that type of talent too often with or without a development league.  

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27 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

*Looks at name of poster, chuckles a bit and says to self "ok I get it now" and moves on*

Laugh it up, but here's what I can bring to the table and what I was hoping to find more of around here:

 

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16 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Laugh it up, but here's what I can bring to the table and what I was hoping to find more of around here:

More about you huh? Here's a little tip on life son, get over yourself.

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2 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

More about you huh? Here's a little tip on life son, get over yourself.

Not a chance, boy. Retired at 30, no one is going to tell me how to live my life. I'm doing just fine.

Edited by Carmen Cygni

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48 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I agree that you can't replicate a real game and I get your point. But how does any of this change with a developmental league? The players are still going to have to earn those same opportunities(or lack of) that they have now. Now you could say, "well it gives them more time to hone their skills and be better prepared for NFL" but there no guarantees in that either because this isn't putting them in a real game either. And when I say "real game" I mean an NFL game. From that standpoint alone, how is this any different than what college offers now? 

If a player lights it up in this new development league there is still no guarantees that he isn't going to piss the bed as soon as he touches an NFL field when he's no longer playing against scrubs.

Besides, again is there really that much unnoticed talent out there to justify having an entire league to begin with? Because I just don't see it. If a player is good enough to be recognized then we will know about him just like we do with Priest Holmes, Kurt Warner and John Randle in the current system. 

You'd still have more opportunities though. And not with college game rules and regulations. It would still be a league where guys are trying to make a career for themselves in the NFL. Don't think that is the case for everyone playing college ball. It would still be a step closer. And NFL teams could have their own subsidiary team like the MLB does. 

I'm not talking about guarantees. I'm talking about players getting more opportunities. A lot of guys don't get nearly enough at the pro level. 

A lot of guys only get noticed because of some fortunate circumstance in their favor. If Trent Green doesn't screw up his ankle, do we even hear about Kurt Warner ever? If the current system was better than it is, those guys would have been drafted. More opprotunities would only help players stand out, not hurt them. Doesn't mean they'll be great, but at least it gives people more information on what they could potentially be. 

 

Edited by PapaShogun

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5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

You'd still have more opportunities though. And not with college game rules and regulations. It would still be a league where guys are trying to make a career for themselves in the NFL. Don't think that is the case for everyone playing college ball. It would still be a step closer. And NFL teams could have their own subsidiary team like the MLB does. 

I'm not talking about guarantees. I'm talking about players getting more opportunities. A lot of guys don't get nearly enough at the pro level. 

A lot of guys only get noticed because of some fortunate circumstance in their favor. If Trent Green doesn't screw up his ankle, do we even hear about Kurt Warner ever? If the current system was better than it is, those guys would have been drafted. More opprotunities would only help players stand out, not hurt them. Doesn't mean they'll be great, but at least it gives people more information on what they could potentially be. 

Fair points.

Again, I'm just not sold on the fact that there is that much untapped talent out there to justify a separate league of it's own though.

 

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1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Fair points.

Again, I'm just not sold on the fact that there is that much untapped talent out there to justify a separate league of it's own though.

 

If you take a longer term view, it could result in more and more untapped talent from wherever the league is located getting their shot in the NFL. It’s something we’re seeing more frequently with European players, not so much going directly to NFL level, but getting noticed and earning D1 scholarships directly from Europe. Historically, young players would have to go to the US to play high school ball first before even being on the radar, but the increased quality of coaching in Europe, coaching networks established by NFLE and the ease of sharing film has seemingly broken down that barrier.

Having a development type league in Europe would be incredible for the game over here and make it an attractive option for good athletes, over other sports like rugby or athletics. It would also improve the quality of coaching further as coaches would have opportunities to work with and learn from experienced professionals.

I doubt the league will result in a greater number of Kurt Warners being found, but you could have a few more Dante Hall/ Brad Johnson type stories. You’d also increase the quality of the game in Europe which would result in more young players filtering up to college and possibly getting their shot in the NFL as draft picks, rather than camp fodder.

Another point to consider. Players like Lawrence Okoye (British Olympic athlete who signed for the 49ers a few years back having never played a down) would have had an opportunity to learn (and get paid) at a development league level, before moving over to the NFL. That’s something he couldn’t have done in the UK, since our league is completely amateur and the level of competition doesn’t really exist. It’s all well and good being an incredible athlete, but these guys who have literally never played before signing to the NFL don’t really stand a chance of making it past training camp. The learning curve is just too steep.

Overall, I think it would depend on what the NFL would want from it. If it aims to globalise the game further and give talent from elsewhere a clearer pathway to the NFL, then it would work. If it aims to uncover more Kurt Warners, then I doubt it would be a success.

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I know it’s not the same and maybe this has been discussed already, but couldn’t the NFL just let teams have bigger PS squads?

Like x amount of players eligible to be signed  to your active roster or signed away like it is now, with the addition and x amount of guys that are “farm guys” that you can only bring up during the off season if you so choose.

Edited by domepatrol91

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10 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Fair points.

Again, I'm just not sold on the fact that there is that much untapped talent out there to justify a separate league of it's own though.

 

I am impressed that you stick to your guns even when the NFL itself is willing to go on record disagreeing with your position. 

If the NFL thinks they could benefit from a developmental league shouldn't that maybe (just maybe) change your opinion? Guess you know more than the NFL. 

Edited by youngosu

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5 hours ago, domepatrol91 said:

I know it’s not the same and maybe this has been discussed already, but couldn’t the NFL just let teams have bigger PS squads?

Like x amount of players eligible to be signed  to your active roster or signed away like it is now, with the addition and x amount of guys that are “farm guys” that you can only bring up during the off season if you so choose.

They would still be under the CBA restrictions as far as limited padded practices, no two-a-days, and overall it would not capitalize on their growth & development compared to a full fledged D-league.

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20 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

They would still be under the CBA restrictions as far as limited padded practices, no two-a-days, and overall it would not capitalize on their growth & development compared to a full fledged D-league.

It doesn't even have to be a traditional league, they could just set up shop in LA or Orlando and have everyone in one place. 

I think a traditional league (or group of regional leagues) with 32 direct affiliates makes more sense for a variety of reasons but that isn't the only option. 

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a minor league would work, maybe the Browns can drop down to a NFL-sanctioned minor league (ala Idaho) since they have struggled for years in the main league

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