Offseason Rumor Thread

[game3525]

Yeah, I doubt anyone gives a first round pick for Gronk. I don't know why DoleNGout keeps pushing this idea. 

Anyway it is a mute point, I don't think Gronk is going anywhere. He is more valuable to the Pats then he is to any other team.  

 

Quote

TBH I think that's the most likely conclusion.   Everyone has NE making the Cooks trade as a deal to move up for QB - I think they were just following the NE blueprint to sell a year early, for a guy they weren't going to commit big FA $ to.    The NE way.   Independent of a big move for QB.

Agreed.

I said when the Cooks trade happen that NE's first priority was to add some youth to the roster. Thanks to deflategate and trades, they haven't had any top 50 picks that they need to replenish the roster. This is a good draft to do it as well since the QB's are overvalued, which should push talent down the board.  

[DoleINGout]

19 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Again, unless Gronk (one month removed from being 29 with one year remaining on his deal and a spinal condition that puts an accelerated ticking clock on his career) is willing to sign a below-market (for a top-tier TE) extension as part of the deal, no one is giving up a 1st for him.  And yes, I know people will point to Cooks, but Cooks (it surprised me too when I saw it) younger than Cooper Kupp who the Rams drafted last year.

If we're talking Gronk straight up for 27 from the Saints, it gets done. If it's 16 from Ravens or 19 from Cowboys then the Pats will include a pick or some package of lower tier assets. 9 from 49ers would require one of the Pats firsts and their late second. 24 from Panthers would probably be pretty close to a straight up swap.

[Eagles23]

No team should give a significant asset for Gronk

[DoleINGout]

7 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Yeah, I doubt anyone gives a first round pick for Gronk. I don't know why DoleNGout keeps pushing this idea. 

Anyway it is a mute point, I don't think Gronk is going anywhere. He is more valuable to the Pats then he is to any other team.  

It's a rumor, in the rumor thread, so lets discuss it. I'm just very engaged because I happen to believe in the possibility becoming a reality given the Patriots interest in quarterbacks this year.

[game3525]

14 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

It's a rumor, in the rumor thread, so lets discuss it. I'm just very engaged because I happen to believe in the possibility becoming a reality given the Patriots interest in quarterbacks this year.

I have seen nothing that suggest that what you are saying are actually rumors. 

Granted, maybe I am looking in the wrong areas, but the only Gronk trade rumor I have seen was with the Rams, which was debunked. 

[DoleINGout]

Just now, game3525 said:

I have seen nothing that suggest that what you are saying are actually rumors. 

Granted, maybe I am looking in the wrong areas, but only Gronk trade rumor I have seen was with the Rams, which was debunked. 

Between panel discussions with NFL insiders and reporters on network television and both local and national radio stations, Gronk trade talk has been very relevant the last two days. It started up again because of his decision to skip voluntary work outs. The facility he is training at and where the Patriots team facility is are literally a 10 minute walk apart. I used to work in the stadium, I know the layout of the Patriot Place area, it's pretty ridiculous to think Gronkowski isn't capable of at least going to the main facility to check in or something. Also, looking at Belichick's history trading veteran players that can't get with the program or are not worth the distraction, it's pretty coninving to me. On top of the discussions held by everyone from WEEI (unreliable) to Adam Schefter (reliable) on record recently, I just think that it's a matter of time. You're right that Gronkowski's best fit is with the Patriots but he could provide equal value to several of the teams I mentioned already. Cowboys, Ravens, Panthers, Saints, and even the Bills could see Gronk getting their teams into Super Bowl contention after the draft.

[Dr LBC]

4 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

If we're talking Gronk straight up for 27 from the Saints, it gets done. If it's 16 from Ravens or 19 from Cowboys then the Pats will include a pick or some package of lower tier assets. 9 from 49ers would require one of the Pats firsts and their late second. 24 from Panthers would probably be pretty close to a straight up swap.

No.  No it doesn't.  Assuming the Saints could even fit Gronk's $8-8.25M cap number under their current cap space (currently they can't, they're barely halfway there and they've yet to sign their rookie class), they'd be looking at going into 2019 with 33 players under contract, only $15M in cap space after Gronk's 2019 cap-number of $10M (after subtracting the $2M that the Pats prorated and would have to eat in dead money this year) was added to the books.

[game3525]

2 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Between panel discussions with NFL insiders and reporters on network television and both local and national radio stations, Gronk trade talk has been very relevant the last two days. It started up again because of his decision to skip voluntary work outs. The facility he is training at and where the Patriots team facility is are literally a 10 minute walk apart. I used to work in the stadium, I know the layout of the Patriot Place area, it's pretty ridiculous to think Gronkowski isn't capable of at least going to the main facility to check in or something. Also, looking at Belichick's history trading veteran players that can't get with the program or are not worth the distraction, it's pretty coninving to me. On top of the discussions held by everyone from WEEI (unreliable) to Adam Schefter (reliable) on record recently, I just think that it's a matter of time. You're right that Gronkowski's best fit is with the Patriots but he could provide equal value to several of the teams I mentioned already. Cowboys, Ravens, Panthers, Saints, and even the Bills could see Gronk getting their teams into Super Bowl contention after the draft.

There has been speculation, but there has been no rumor destinations concerning Gronk. You have been listing teams that could be interested in Gronk, but there is actually no evidence that they are interested. 

This isn't like the Odell rumors, where there were teams he was actually linked too. 

[DoleINGout]

23 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Agreed.

I said when the Cooks trade happen that NE's first priority was to add some youth to the roster. Thanks to deflategate and trades, they haven't had any top 50 picks that they need to replenish the roster. This is a good draft to do it as well since the QB's are overvalued, which should push talent down the board.  

As one poster pointed out, Cooks is younger still than Cooper Kupp who was just drafted last year. Cooks represented youth to the Patriots. He got an offer reportedly but turned it down. Cooks was moved because he wasn't dynamic enough of a player to warrant keeping around relative to the contract he had wanted and the asset the Pats traded to get him. So they shipped Cooks out of town for the same value or better than what they traded to get him for. I partially agree with you about the team acquiring young talent but my point is that they already had young talent in Cooks it's just he wasn't the right type of young talent they needed for the investment they made. I say this to say that the interest appears more to be in a position of greater importance or someone who can play a bigger role than just flanker. I think that's in large part where the conclusion comes from that the Patriots are trying to find a QB in the first round. 23 I think is a spot they will try to stay at and move 31 in a package with other assets to move up and get their QB of the future. I won't rule out 2012 all over again either when they traded up in the first round twice.

[DoleINGout]

9 minutes ago, The LBC said:

No.  No it doesn't.  Assuming the Saints could even fit Gronk's $8-8.25M cap number under their current cap space (currently they can't, they're barely halfway there and they've yet to sign their rookie class), they'd be looking at going into 2019 with 33 players under contract, only $15M in cap space after Gronk's 2019 cap-number of $10M (after subtracting the $2M that the Pats prorated and would have to eat in dead money this year) was added to the books.

The cap can be manipulated just about any way a team wants when they really want to. Sean Payton, Drew Brees and the ownership of the New Orleans Saints are going for it this year. The opportunity to win by adding Gronk with the 27 pick alone helps the Saints chances of winning the Super Bowl immensely. If you want to say the Pats would include a sixth round pick to sweeten it up, then fine, but to me it's essentially the same as straight up in that case too.

[DoleINGout]

9 minutes ago, game3525 said:

There has been speculation, but there has been no rumor destinations concerning Gronk. You have been listing teams that could be interested in Gronk, but there is actually no evidence that they are interested. 

This isn't like the Odell rumors, where there were teams he was actually linked too. 

Correct, I am drawing seemingly logical conclusions as to teams where Gronk would be a trade target. But there have been rumors that Gronk will be traded which is why it is being talked about. Again, I am engaged because of my suspicion that the Pats are trading up for a QB.

[Dr LBC]

9 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

The cap can be manipulated just about any way a team wants when they really want to. Sean Payton, Drew Brees and the ownership of the New Orleans Saints are going for it this year. The opportunity to win by adding Gronk with the 27 pick alone helps the Saints chances of winning the Super Bowl immensely. If you want to say the Pats would include a sixth round pick to sweeten it up, then fine, but to me it's essentially the same as straight up in that case too.

Another overgeneralized statement from someone who likely hasn't looked at a short or long-term breakdown of the Saints' cap sheet.  The Saints have one of the least wiggle-room cap-sheets over the next several years of any club in the league.  They have already made their all-in moves at this point and they're going to be in a position where they absolutely NEED their premium draft picks in order to fill out their roster; they're not in a position to be burning them on 1-2 year rentals.  Yes, in 2020 they'll be a shade over $100m under the cap, but that's with only 17 players under contract.

You're tunneling on anything and everything that makes your position right and (i suspect, intentionally) blindly dismissing anything else to the contrary.  Which wouldn't be an issue if you weren't also calling your position "logical."

[game3525]

7 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

As one poster pointed out, Cooks is younger still than Cooper Kupp who was just drafted last year. Cooks represented youth to the Patriots. He got an offer reportedly but turned it down. Cooks was moved because he wasn't dynamic enough of a player to warrant keeping around relative to the contract he had wanted and the asset the Pats traded to get him. So they shipped Cooks out of town for the same value or better than what they traded to get him for. I partially agree with you about the team acquiring young talent but my point is that they already had young talent in Cooks it's just he wasn't the right type of young talent they needed for the investment they made. I say this to say that the interest appears more to be in a position of greater importance or someone who can play a bigger role than just flanker. I think that's in large part where the conclusion comes from that the Patriots are trying to find a QB in the first round. 23 I think is a spot they will try to stay at and move 31 in a package with other assets to move up and get their QB of the future. I won't rule out 2012 all over again either when they traded up in the first round twice.

Cooks is one player, they need more then that (especially on defense.). Prior to this season, New England was near the bottom of the league in terms of under-25 assets and they usually are among the league leaders in that department.  They have had one top 50 pick in the last three years and those picks have usually been the backbone of the roster they have had this decade. 

I don't see the Pats mortgaging that those picks to move in the top 10 to take a QB. 

[DoleINGout]

Just now, The LBC said:

Another overgeneralized statement from someone who likely hasn't looked at a short or long-term breakdown of the Saints' cap sheet.  The Saints have one of the least wiggle-room cap-sheets over the next several years of any club in the league.  They have already made their all-in moves at this point and they're going to be in a position where they absolutely NEED their premium draft picks in order to fill out their roster; they're not in a position to be burning them on 1-2 year rentals.  Yes, in 2020 they'll be a shade over $100m under the cap, but that's with only 17 players under contract.

You're tunneling on anything and everything that makes your position right and (i suspect, intentionally) blindly dismissing anything else to the contrary.

I have not checked out the Saints long term cap sheet since maybe before free agency when I went at most two years into the future from now on sportrac. This is it for the Saints. Their cap isn't holding them back from trading for a difference maker like Gronkowski espeically when they'd only be signing draft picks after pick 91. The Saints have very little roster left to fill out or premium needs to address besides QB. With a late third this year, a few picks between the fourth and fifth rounds, and several move in tbe later rounds, the Saints roster will be as filled out as it can be on a championship caliber team contending in a short one to two year window of opportunity right now. The offensive line and majority of the defense is young, along with Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara on offense.

Please though, for overgeneralized statements, show me where I've dismissed anything. In this rumor thread, I've addressed each post directly with specific details as it pertains to the subject at hand.

[DoleINGout]

7 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Cooks is one player, they need more then that (especially on defense.). Prior to this season, New England was near the bottom of the league in terms of under-25 assets and they usually are among the league leaders in that department.  They have had one top 50 pick in the last three years and those picks have usually been the backbone of the roster they have had this decade. 

I don't see the Pats mortgaging that those picks to move in the top 10 to take a QB. 

I don't see them mortaging both firsts to move into the top ten either. I haven't said they would, but even if they do trade one pick in each round to move up, that still will add up to three picks in the first two rounds. Plus next year they are likely getting a few third round compensatory picks which well help from losing big contract players this year. (Nate Solder, Malcolm Butler, Dion Lewis, Danny Amendola.)