With the 2nd Pick...

[MKnight82]

8 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Oh, you’re preaching to the choir on that one. I don’t know if you were here for the 2011 offseason, but every analyst and rumor in the world had us taking Jake Locker. And I hated it. For exactly that reason, his completion percentage was garbage. 

There are two reasons I would consider giving Allen a bit of a pass on that. First, the quality of his receivers was obviously not up to snuff. Especially this past season (his junior year), when you really would have expected his comp% to take a big step forward. His top two WRs from 2016 both graduated, as did his top TE. His top receiver this year was a sophomore who caught 11 passes the previous season. For a guy like Allen, who clearly doesn’t have pinpoint precision but does have a howitzer for an arm, shaky receivers are even more of a problem — they just can’t handle the heat he puts on the ball. 

The other reason I’d consider giving him a pass in this pick, specifically for NYG, is that they’re in the position of not needing (or really even wanting) a rookie to play right away. If you throw Allen right into the fire, it’s probably going to be a total nightmare. Might ruin him for the long haul. But Eli probably has a year or two of reasonably acceptable football left in him, so they can mold their rookie QB over time. And Allen is one talented, physically gifted lump of clay. 

I don’t envy them the decision between these QBs. I don’t see anything that resembles a sure thing in any of them — so I think I might shoot for the moon, go for the guy with the highest and trust my staff to coach him up. In his previous job, Gettleman got to benefit from a similar decision they made down in Carolina. 

I don't think you can fix accuracy though.  If I'm them I'd roll the dice on Rosen or Darnold.  Both are much safer plays with just as much upside IMO.

Buffalo needs to go get Josh Allen.  Big arm to push through that wind.  He can be their new Jim Kelly.  He can sit behind Tyrod for a year.  

[e16bball]

38 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I don't think you can fix accuracy though.  If I'm them I'd roll the dice on Rosen or Darnold.  Both are much safer plays with just as much upside IMO.

Buffalo needs to go get Josh Allen.  Big arm to push through that wind.  He can be their new Jim Kelly.  He can sit behind Tyrod for a year.  

I think my question is how much of his comp% is due to the accuracy of his passes and how much is due to the fact that his receivers arent very good at getting open or actually catching the passes he throws. But the truth is, you’re making the exact same argument I made so loudly against Locker, so I probably need to yield to your (slash “my”) position on the accuracy 

I’d be good with Darnold for them there too. I think he’s similar to Allen in that he’s got the athletic upside and needs some polish.

Would be very concerned about Rosen for them. The talent is there, and I actually kinda like the kid as a person/character — but there’s just too much smoke as far as his long-term commitment to football and to winning. I can’t trust a guy with the future of my franchise when I have questions as to whether he’s all-in when it comes to football. And to put a kid like that in New York City, with fame and the spotlight always following him, it seems like a big time gamble.

EDIT: I like the idea of Allen for the Bills too. As long as you sit the guy for at least a season, I think you’re gonna have a shot at stardom with him. 

[Woz]

45 minutes ago, e16bball said:

For a guy like Allen, who clearly doesn’t have pinpoint precision but does have a howitzer for an arm, shaky receivers are even more of a problem — they just can’t handle the heat he puts on the ball. 

The guy I keep thinking of when I think of Josh Allen: Kyle Boller.

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think my question is how much of his comp% is due to the accuracy of his passes and how much is due to the fact that his receivers arent very good at getting open or actually catching the passes he throws. But the truth is, you’re making the exact same argument I made so loudly against Locker, so I probably need to yield to your (slash “my”) position on the accuracy 

I’d be good with Darnold for them there too. I think he’s similar to Allen in that he’s got the athletic upside and needs some polish.

Would be very concerned about Rosen for them. The talent is there, and I actually kinda like the kid as a person/character — but there’s just too much smoke as far as his long-term commitment to football and to winning. I can’t trust a guy with the future of my franchise when I have questions as to whether he’s all-in when it comes to football. And to put a kid like that in New York City, with fame and the spotlight always following him, it seems like a big time gamble.

EDIT: I like the idea of Allen for the Bills too. As long as you sit the guy for at least a season, I think you’re gonna have a shot at stardom with him. 

Rosen’s been playing in Los Angeles I think he can handle NY

[e16bball]

43 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Rosen’s been playing in Los Angeles I think he can handle NY

I mean...he did play there. But despite his prodigious “arm talent,” he left with a 16-14 record, no bowl wins, a prominent coach fired, and a widespread reputation as an arrogant asshat who doesn’t really care that much about football or winning.

So I’m not sure he handled it real well. And unless you’re Mark Harmon, “UCLA QB” comes with about 1/10 of the spotlight that goes along with being “QB for the New York Giants.” 

Not trying to say he’s a bad guy. He reminds a little bit of myself at his age, actually. But if I’m the Giants and I’ve got a choice of 4 QBs who I rate relatively similarly, two of whom are potential distractions (Rosen and Mayfield) and two of whom are pretty low key grinders (Darnold and Allen) — I’m not taking the chance. 

[MKnight82]

7 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I mean...he did play there. But despite his prodigious “arm talent,” he left with a 16-14 record, no bowl wins, a prominent coach fired, and a widespread reputation as an arrogant asshat who doesn’t really care that much about football or winning.

So I’m not sure he handled it real well. And unless you’re Mark Harmon, “UCLA QB” comes with about 1/10 of the spotlight that goes along with being “QB for the New York Giants.” 

Not trying to say he’s a bad guy. He reminds a little bit of myself at his age, actually. But if I’m the Giants and I’ve got a choice of 4 QBs who I rate relatively similarly, two of whom are potential distractions (Rosen and Mayfield) and two of whom are pretty low key grinders (Darnold and Allen) — I’m not taking the chance. 

He’s got a better arm than Darnold and better accuracy than Allen.  I think Mayfield and Jackson will be flat out busts, but that’s just my opinion.  To me Rosen is the top QB in the draft.

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

He’s got a better arm than Darnold and better accuracy than Allen.  I think Mayfield and Jackson will be flat out busts, but that’s just my opinion.  To me Rosen is the top QB in the draft.

He’s def the most natural. Amazing footwork. His mechanics are almost perfect. That’s why he’s so accurate. I don’t necessarily agree about Jackson and Mayfield but I do agree if they don’t go to a short list of teams for the both of them. Those two need the perfect situation for each. I’m not a huge Darnold guy that’s my flat out bust in this class and I know I’m the only person in the world who believes that lol

[Ghostnote]

4 hours ago, Woz said:

The guy I keep thinking of when I think of Josh Allen: Kyle Boller.

Ryan Mallett. 

[Woz]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:53 PM, mike23md said:

Ryan Mallett. 

He's got more mobility than Mallett. Heck, even late career Drew Bledsoe had more mobility.