Packers Big Board #9

[Packerraymond]

We'll go #9 now, this one should be interesting, no clear favorite now that the forum favorite defensive guys are gone.

#1 - Bradley Chubb [DE; NC State]

#2 - Saquon Barkley [RB; Penn State]

#3 - Denzel Ward [CB; Ohio State]

#4 - Derwin James [S; Florida State]

#5 - Tremaine Edmunds [LB; Virginia Tech]

#6 - Minkah Fitzpatrick [DB; Alabama]

#7 - Marcus Davenport [EDGE; UTSA]

#8 - Harold Landry [EDGE; Boston College]

 

[Packerraymond]

Leighton is my choice here, I have him ahead of Landry around #13 on my big board. Things have gone pretty close to the order of my board so far (I do have the QBs on that one and I have Nelson at 11). As far as defensive players, swap Edmunds and James and move LVE in the spot Landry's in and it would be identical.

[MacReady]

As much as I hate the idea of an ILB in round one, Leighton Vander Esch is one that I would not be remotely upset about.  With all the gifs/videos I saw of him, I thought he was a pass rusher who played inside from time to time.  With that kind of athleticism, that kind of playmaking ability, that kind of coverage ability and that ability to tackle, I wouldn't even classify him as an ILB in the traditional sense of the word.  He gets my vote here, but that's only because I know next to nothing about Hughes.  What's Hughes like? 

Also, I'm reporting anyone who votes for Nelson over the two tackles to the proper authorities. 

[MacReady]

@Stance Punk, @86Capers, you have been reported to the authorities.  Are either of you even real? 

 

[86Capers]

I’m higher on Jaire Alexander than LVE, I really must be missing something? Do you guys think he’s a potential 3-4 outside linebacker/ pass rusher? 

[vegas492]

No surprise from me, I'm still taking the best football player on the board and that is Nelson.  Reasons as far as why are on the last thread....

As far as LVE goes...I was hesitant to post this on the little video of him running around the circle, but...  I didn't like what I saw in that one little clip.  Long strider, doesn't want to bend, doesn't maintain a bend, really wants to be upright.  Pretty typical fo a taller players.

I prefer short choppier steps with more footspeed than a long strider, especially inside.  With his frame, he naturally wants to stand up, you can see it in the drill.  He's gonna hear from Mac about "pad level" a lot if he is the pick.

Granted, that is my observation after watching a quick 15 second clip...I've watched only about two minutes of tape on LVE and I can't say that either of those things really showed up...well, maybe pad level did....

[MacReady]

Okay... @ArthurPensky, @vegas492, did you just vote for Nelson to incite a meltdown out of me?  I'm not going to give you what you want.  If you really believe that, that's fine.  You're wrong, but it's still your right to believe that. 

I would ask you the following:

1. Name one guard taken in the top 15 that turned out to have been worth it.
2. Name three guards taken in the first round that even got a second contract from the team that drafted them. 

College tackles converted to guard don't count. 

[Cheesehawk]

10 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Okay... @ArthurPensky, @vegas492, did you just vote for Nelson to incite a meltdown out of me?  I'm not going to give you what you want.  If you really believe that, that's fine.  You're wrong, but it's still your right to believe that. 

I would ask you the following:

1. Name one guard taken in the top 15 that turned out to have been worth it.
2. Name three guards taken in the first round that even got a second contract from the team that drafted them. 

College tackles converted to guard don't count. 

I am definitely against Nelson but John Hannah comes to mind as a guard who played his entire Hall of Fame career with one team.

[Packerraymond]

12 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

No surprise from me, I'm still taking the best football player on the board and that is Nelson.  Reasons as far as why are on the last thread....

As far as LVE goes...I was hesitant to post this on the little video of him running around the circle, but...  I didn't like what I saw in that one little clip.  Long strider, doesn't want to bend, doesn't maintain a bend, really wants to be upright.  Pretty typical fo a taller players.

I prefer short choppier steps with more footspeed than a long strider, especially inside.  With his frame, he naturally wants to stand up, you can see it in the drill.  He's gonna hear from Mac about "pad level" a lot if he is the pick.

Granted, that is my observation after watching a quick 15 second clip...I've watched only about two minutes of tape on LVE and I can't say that either of those things really showed up...well, maybe pad level did....

Stiffness is the least concern of mine when you watch him, and the Combine numbers reflect that. The Pro Day isn't like the Combine where it's the same drills every year. A lot of times you workout with your position coach and then NFL position coaches can put you through drills of their choice too. The "hoola hoop" drill as we called it when I was playing is a pass rusher drill. To me that tells me a lot of teams see LVE like most of us do, versatile player that can be like Clay and play both ILB and EDGE. Odds are he'd never done that drill before. 

However I disagree about wanting to see choppy feet in that drill. That drill is to mimic getting low and bending under an OT to the QB, you don't get to the QB with choppy steps. The best guys get their feet as far away from the circle as possible to show that hip flexion when they bend for the cone, the same flexion they'll need to fight off the OT while bending under them. It wasn't text book when I watched him but I doubt he did that drill in practice ever.

Now his vertical drop with the hip flips was insane. They say the more you stay on the line while flipping your hips the more fluid you are, damn near every step of his comes down on that line. Crazy.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

As much as I hate the idea of an ILB in round one, Leighton Vander Esch is one that I would not be remotely upset about.  With all the gifs/videos I saw of him, I thought he was a pass rusher who played inside from time to time.  With that kind of athleticism, that kind of playmaking ability, that kind of coverage ability and that ability to tackle, I wouldn't even classify him as an ILB in the traditional sense of the word.  He gets my vote here, but that's only because I know next to nothing about Hughes.  What's Hughes like? 

Also, I'm reporting anyone who votes for Nelson over the two tackles to the proper authorities. 

Mike Hughes is too short for the old-style Packers 5'11" minimum, at corner (he is 5'10 1/8"). He had some touble at N.Carolina and left (transferred to Central Florida). He may have put the behaviour stuff behind him. Ran a disappointing 4.53 at the combine but he should be a 4.3 something guy - he is fast on the field. Smooth mover with speed and a burst who can run stride for stride with receivers and knows how to disrupt the catch. Can play zone or man (but I'm not sure how he will do against bigger NFL receivers). Very good instincts and will stick his nose in it, when asked to run support. Has extra value in his rookie year as a kick returner. I thought he was going to be a late first early second round guy, but he seems to be a riser.

The only corner I'd really be interested in at #14 is Denzel Ward, but he is probably gone before the Packers pick.

As for where Nelson goes (relative to the offensive tackles), I'd put him behind Connor Williams (many will find that controversial) and before McGlinchey. it's an argument between ability versus positional value. Nelson has the most ability, but LT is a prime position (the guards unstrapped my straightjacket so I could type this, and I'm relatively clearheaded, as Nurse Ratched doesn't arrive with the meds until later this afternoon).

As for the Packers best pick, I'm trying to decide between Vander Esch, Ridley and Williams. If I considered the best player in isolation, I'd probably go with Ridley, but there will be good receivers to be had in the second and third rounds, and the dropoff, while there, isn't huge

I still haven't given up on Spriggs (this is THE crucial year for him, where he makes the jump or rapidly fades to obscurity), or Bulaga, so although I like OT Connor Williams, I'll settle for the great potential of VANDER ESCH, projecting him as a pass rusher.

[Arthur Penske]

24 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Okay... @ArthurPensky, @vegas492, did you just vote for Nelson to incite a meltdown out of me?  I'm not going to give you what you want.  If you really believe that, that's fine.  You're wrong, but it's still your right to believe that. 

I would ask you the following:

1. Name one guard taken in the top 15 that turned out to have been worth it.
2. Name three guards taken in the first round that even got a second contract from the team that drafted them. 

College tackles converted to guard don't count. 

I definitely don't prefer OL at 14. But this is about BPA for me and I think that's Nelson. I also don't think he can just play guard. From what I've read many think he's a player that can play all along the line.

[MacReady]

Just now, ArthurPensky said:

I definitely don't prefer OL at 14. But this is about BPA for me and I think that's Nelson. I also don't think he can just play guard. From what I've read many think he's a player that can play all along the line.

He's come out and said that he wants to play guard though.  As a draft prospect, you say whatever you think people want to hear.  You don't say you only want to play one position. 

Additionally, this isn't BPA.  This is best player for the Packers.  It's the Packers big board.  We've got bigger fish to fry than IOL. 

[MacReady]

Just now, packerrfan74 said:

I am definitely against Nelson but John Hannah comes to mind as a guard who played his entire Hall of Fame career with one team.

Hannah played tackle in college though. 

[Cheesehawk]

Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

Hannah played tackle in college though. 

And guard.  So he wasn't technically converted to a guard.

[Arthur Penske]

6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

He's come out and said that he wants to play guard though.  As a draft prospect, you say whatever you think people want to hear.  You don't say you only want to play one position. 

Additionally, this isn't BPA.  This is best player for the Packers.  It's the Packers big board.  We've got bigger fish to fry than IOL. 

I'm not saying place him anywhere else in 2018. I'm saying he can move around in a pinch.

Yeah, and QB wasn't the biggest need in 2005. Nor was WR in other years when TT picked one early. How'd that work out for the franchise in the long run? BPA plays a major role in how GB has traditionally drafted.

Like I said, I don't prefer OL at 14, but if that's the way the board falls, that's the way it falls. While improving the defense is priority #1, having Rodgers/RBs play behind stellar Olineman wouldn't exactly be detrimental to the team.