Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[turtle28]

28 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Wall is absolutely not worth $40 mil per season.

Well it’s true that no player is worth that much, but that is the deal that the owners signed with the players. Wall is certainly the only player on the wizards who comes close to being worth that much.

[Skinsin2013]

Wall isn't a supermax player. I posted an article about supermax players earlier and just how few live up to the value. I also pointed out who the current supermaxes are... and Wall pales in comparison.

George does create his own shots better than Porter. But if you'd rather have a SF that is three years older, doesn't shoot as well, doesn't defend as well, on this team with two ball heisters, simply because he creates (and misses) his shot better, that's cool. Guess he'd take Wall's shots. Then Wall's PPG will go down and you'd rag on him even if his FG% went up. SMH. George got his shots off in OKC because he was the clear two with Anthony fading away.

Wall and Beal are horrid in the clutch (under four minutes). Both shoot in the low 30s.

Stars over stats over winning... bout the only thing you've said that makes sense is that Wall puts butts in seats. He's good at that.

[turtle28]

6 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Wall isn't a supermax player. I posted an article about supermax players earlier and just how few live up to the value. I also pointed out who the current supermaxes are... and Wall pales in comparison.

George does create his own shots better than Porter. But if you'd rather have a SF that is three years older, doesn't shoot as well, doesn't defend as well, on this team with two ball heisters, simply because he creates (and misses) his shot better, that's cool. Guess he'd take Wall's shots. Then Wall's PPG will go down and you'd rag on him even if his FG% went up. SMH. George got his shots off in OKC because he was the clear two with Anthony fading away.

Wall and Beal are horrid in the clutch (under four minutes). Both shoot in the low 30s.

Stars over stats over winning... bout the only thing you've said that makes sense is that Wall puts butts in seats. He's good at that.

Of course Wall isn’t going to live up to his super max contract. I’m sure the only players that will are guys like LeBron James and Kevin Durant because they are the very best players in the NBA and deliver Championships.

When it comes to Wall, you can’t just look at his scoring or his shooting %. You have to take into affect his assists. As I’ve pointed out numerous times in this thread Wall accounts for 20 to 30 ppg off of his assists to other players. He sets up everyone on the team with shots, even guys who can’t create their own shot like Porter, Gortat, Morris and Mahinmi. He serves them up open looks on a platter.

The way I figure it, Wall accounts for nearly or over 50% of the teams offense every night. There are very few players in the NBA that account for 50% of his teams offense or over.

You clearly don’t know how good of a defender Paul George is, did you ignore the graphic I posted about how many times George has been 1st or 2nd team all defense?

• 3× All-NBA Third Team (2013, 2014, 2016)
• NBA All-Defensive First Team (2014)
• 2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013, 2016)

I think you’re allergic to truth. Paul George is a 20 point a game scorer. He was on the Pacers and is on OKC. If George came to DC perhaps instead of scoring 23 ppg, he’d go down to 20 ppg but he certainly would score more than Porter’s pedestrian 14 ppg.

I don’t see Porter ever getting on an All-Defensive team and unless he’s a teams 2nd option, I don’t see him approaching 20 ppg, which Paul George will always be around or over a 20 ppg scorer bc unlike Porter, George can create his own shot regularly and he’s more athletic.

 I’ll give you that Porter is an efficient player, but that’s about the only thing that you’ve said correctly since the first page of this thread.

[MKnight82]

So Zach Lowe posted a rumor about Karl-Anthony Towns possibly being available for trade this summer.  What would you be willing to offer for the 20 year old stud Center?  

I would offer Beal, Oubre, and this year's first, but I'm not sure that would get it done.  

 

[turtle28]

40 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

So Zach Lowe posted a rumor about Karl-Anthony Towns possibly being available for trade this summer.  What would you be willing to offer for the 20 year old stud Center?  

I would offer Beal, Oubre, and this year's first, but I'm not sure that would get it done.  

 

I would think that would get it done, maybe we’d have to throw in next years 1st also or another player like Kieff Morris. Also, we could send them Gortat. With Gortat having an expiring contract, that is attractive to teams because it means a year from now they’ll have an extra $16 million in cap space.

Beal is the most attractive trade option the Wizards have and Oubre is also an attractive piece because he’s only going to turn 23 during next season.

Here is my thing with this offer though, the TWolves are already loaded at the wing position:

At SG they have Jimmy Butler and at SF they have Andrew Wiggins.

I’m not sure they’d want to trade for Beal. If they trade for Beal, how do they get playing time for Beal, Butler and Wiggins?

I think if this were to happen that it’d have to be a 3-team deal with Wiggins also getting traded somewhere or possibly Wiggins comes with Towns to DC, but I’m not sure if we have the pieces to pull off that trade, even if we included Morris.

I’m not sure this trade works if it’s just the two teams involved:

TWolves get: Beal, Morris, Oubre, Gortat and 2018 and 2019 1st round picks 

Wizards get: Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins

Seems lopsided to me, but I do know that Wiggins doesn’t like being the 3rd option in Minny. He didn’t like having to play 3rd fiddle to Butler and Towns. If Wiggins comes to DC he would be featured more and take over Beal’s role as really our #1 scoring threat on the wing.

Edited May 21, 2018 by turtle28

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

we’d have to throw in next years 1st also

You can't trade firsts in back to back years its against NBA rules.  

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

or another player like Kieff Morris

Ya they can have Morris.

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Also, we could send them Gortat. With Gortat having an expiring contract, that is attractive to teams because it means a year from now they’ll have an extra $16 million in cap space.

I'm not sure they'd want Gortat.  

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

At SG they have Jimmy Butler and at Saf they have Andrew Wiggins.

Zach Lowe's report is that they want to make quite a few moves.  Wiggins has struggled not being the #1 scoring option.  My guess is he'd be on the way out the door too, and Butler can play the 3.  

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think if this were to happen that it’d have to be a 3-team deal with Wiggins also getting traded somewhere or possibly Wiggins comes with Towns to DC also, but I’m not sure if we have the pieces to pull off that trade, even if we included Morris.

My bad you already thought about Wiggins moving.  Ya, the Wizards can't afford to bring in both.  Also Wiggins is expensive salary cap wise.  Honestly though, with Wiggins contract and Butler only having 2 years left I wonder if moving Butler wouldn't be smarter for them.  They won't though, because their Coach/GM need playoff success to keep their jobs.  

7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

TWolves get: Beal, Morris, Oubre, Gortat and 2018 and 2019 1st round picks 

Wizards get: Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins

We can't send them both firsts, only way TWolves would do this is if they were just dumping Wiggins salary, and I can't see them doing that.  Also I don't really see the fit with the Wizards either unless you're playing Wiggins at the 2, and he's not a great shooter.  

 

 

[turtle28]

6 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

You can't trade firsts in back to back years its against NBA rules.  

Ya they can have Morris.

I'm not sure they'd want Gortat.  

Zach Lowe's report is that they want to make quite a few moves.  Wiggins has struggled not being the #1 scoring option.  My guess is he'd be on the way out the door too, and Butler can play the 3.  

My bad you already thought about Wiggins moving.  Ya, the Wizards can't afford to bring in both.  Also Wiggins is expensive salary cap wise.  Honestly though, with Wiggins contract and Butler only having 2 years left I wonder if moving Butler wouldn't be smarter for them.  They won't though, because their Coach/GM need playoff success to keep their jobs.  

We can't send them both firsts, only way TWolves would do this is if they were just dumping Wiggins salary, and I can't see them doing that.  Also I don't really see the fit with the Wizards either unless you're playing Wiggins at the 2, and he's not a great shooter.  

 

 

I didn’t know about it being able to trade first round picks two years in a row, I could have sworn that the Celtics got that from the nets but perhaps the 1st round picks  were two years apart. So, if that’s allowable then I’d do that.

They can have the Wizards 2018 1st and our 2020 1st then.

And yes, I’d play Wiggins at the 2. I get that he’s not the best 3-point shooter but obviously that’s where he’d play for us. In his career he is a 44 to 46% overall shooter from the field but only a 32 to 36% 3-point shooter.

 If they are losing Karl Anthony Towns they’re going to want a center back in return, even if it’s only an average center like Gortat and again Gortat’s expiring contract is one of our most attractive trade pieces because they’d have $16 million opened up in cap space in July of 2019.

[Skinsin2013]

Wall
Gortat
Oubre
1st

for

KAT

All day every day.

[Woz]

Just now, Skinsin2013 said:

Wall
Gortat
Oubre
1st

for

KAT

All day every day.

Don't think you can send Wall due to the contract (you're not getting the equivalent cap space back) ... but I could be wrong since I still don't understand the intricacies of the NBA cap and how it affects trades.

[Skinsin2013]

@turtle28 We get it. Wall is a ball-dominant guard that isn't a very good shooter but shots too much. Ball-dominant guards tend to have a lot of assists. You like all that, plus six knee injuries, and a doubling contract.

I don't discount that George was a good defender. You could argue he and Porter are close on defense now. The stats certainly suggest that. But, again, three years older, worse shooter, six more shots to get seven more points, worse rebounder, turns the ball over more. Otto all day!

[Skinsin2013]

4 minutes ago, Woz said:

Don't think you can send Wall due to the contract (you're not getting the equivalent cap space back) ... but I could be wrong since I still don't understand the intricacies of the NBA cap and how it affects trades.

I was armchairing it. Wall also has a 15% trade kicker, which means the team he's traded to pays Wall a 15% bonus of his remaining salary. Wall would have to waive/restructure his kicker. Otherwise, no one would want him.

This is a show...

 

Year		Age	Status	Base Salary	Cap Hit	Dead Cap
2014-15		23		$14,746,000	$14,746,000	$84,789,500
2015-16		24		$15,851,950	$15,851,950	$70,043,500
2016-17		25		$16,957,900	$16,957,900	$54,191,550
2017-18		26		$18,063,850	$18,063,850	$206,577,650
2018-19		27		$19,169,800	$19,169,800	$188,513,800

Year		Age	Base Salary	Cap Hit	Dead
2019-20		28	$37,800,000	$37,800,000	$169,344,000
2020-21		29	$40,824,000	$40,824,000	$131,544,000
2021-22		30	$43,848,000	$43,848,000	$90,720,000
2022-23		31	$46,872,000	$46,872,000	$46,872,000

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

@turtle28 We get it. Wall is a ball-dominant guard that isn't a very good shooter but shots too much. Ball-dominant guards tend to have a lot of assists. You like all that, plus six knee injuries, and a doubling contract.

I don't discount that George was a good defender. You could argue he and Porter are close on defense now. The stats certainly suggest that. But, again, three years older, worse shooter, six more shots to get seven more points, worse rebounder, turns the ball over more. Otto all day!

You certainly said that Otto was a better defender before and it’s just not true - in fact it’s NOt even close! George is an electrician defender, like Kawhai Leonard, he’s actually a better defender than he is an offensive player and both players are great offensive players too.  If actually watch both players play you can see that George is far more athletic and can create his own shot off the bounce and Porter struggled to do so which makes George better.

To even suggest that Porter is even close to the player that George is, is about the silliest thing I’ve ever heard of besides saying the Wizards should trade Wall.

The eyeball test doesn’t lie. They’re also about equivalent rebounders. Porter had .7 rounds more than George a game this past season. That’s basically equivalent. Also, in 4 of George’s 7 seasons he had more rebounds per game than Porter averaged the last two seasons. George’s  career average on rebounds per game is 6.2 which is basically equivalent to what Porter has had in his last two seasons, 6.4.

Wall used to be a poor jump shooter but the last two years he hasn’t been. That’s an old narrative from when he first came in the league. He’s been a 44% or better 2 point shooter except in his rookie season and this last season he was a 37% shooter from 3.

I’ll also add that Wall takes the most contested shots on the team and that’s a reason why his shooting % is lower than someone like Porter who gets open shots set up to him on a platter all game by Wall.

Edited May 22, 2018 by turtle28

[Skinsin2013]

I love the platter chatter. So silly. Porter's shooting percentage, and shots/game, went UP without Wall... as did a few others. Is Wall serving a Poopoo Platter? Beal's went down. LOL!!!

You keep telling me about what George USED to do. Click on the link. Tell me, why are all the blue bars shaded in blue on the left? Why aren't George's bars shaded? Maybe if they added in TO ratio he'd have one shaded blue bar. 

Wall's FG% this year was his worst since his rookie campaign. 42%. 3pt% up. FT% worst of his career. Boy-o-boy are you cherry-picking stats. Ha!!!

Contested shots. John Wall shoots 62% when there is a defender within 2 feet (i.e., a contest shot). Those shots actually HELP his FG%. When he is open or wide open, his FG% stinks. And it shows you what a scrub he is from mid-range.

#SoMuchFakeNews

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Skinsin2013

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

I was armchairing it. Wall also has a 15% trade kicker, which means the team he's traded to pays Wall a 15% bonus of his remaining salary. Wall would have to waive/restructure his kicker. Otherwise, no one would want him.

This is a show...

 

Year		Age	Status	Base Salary	Cap Hit	Dead Cap
2014-15		23		$14,746,000	$14,746,000	$84,789,500
2015-16		24		$15,851,950	$15,851,950	$70,043,500
2016-17		25		$16,957,900	$16,957,900	$54,191,550
2017-18		26		$18,063,850	$18,063,850	$206,577,650
2018-19		27		$19,169,800	$19,169,800	$188,513,800

Year		Age	Base Salary	Cap Hit	Dead
2019-20		28	$37,800,000	$37,800,000	$169,344,000
2020-21		29	$40,824,000	$40,824,000	$131,544,000
2021-22		30	$43,848,000	$43,848,000	$90,720,000
2022-23		31	$46,872,000	$46,872,000	$46,872,000

Doesn’t matter even if someone did want him, he’s not going anywhere. You’re suggestion throughout this whole trade that we trade him is an idea that will never happen, so I have to question why you’re even bringing it up.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Skinsin2013 said:

I love the platter chatter. So silly. Porter's shooting percentage, and shots/game, went UP without Wall... as did a few others. Is Wall serving a Poopoo Platter? Beal's went down. LOL!!!

You keep telling me about what George USED to do. Click on the link. Tell me, why are all the blue bars shaded in blue on the left? Why aren't George's bars shaded? Maybe if they added in TO ratio he'd have one shaded blue bar. 

Wall's FG% this year was his worst since his rookie campaign. 42%. 3pt% up. FT% worst of his career. Boy-o-boy are you cherry-picking stats. Ha!!!

Contested shots. John Wall shoots 62% when there is a defender within 2 feet (i.e., a contest shot). Those shots actually HELP his FG%. When he is open or wide open, his FG% stinks. And it shows you what a scrub he is from mid-range.

#SoMuchFakeNews

 

That’s because Sato also is a pass first player and he set up Beal, Morris, Gortat and Porter with open shots as well. Sato isn’t the scorer that Wall is - but unlike Porter - he is capable of breaking down a defense and getting his own shot or creating shots for others which he did while Wall was out.

Wall was hurt this year, don’t you knew that? That’s why his shooting percentage was down. Wow, ridiculousness written just over and over.

Hey but Kyle Korver... I mean Otto Porter is the best player on the Wizards! What a horrible position to have.

The reason John shoots 62% when players are within 2 feet of him is because most of  those shots are lay ups. 

It’s like you don’t actually watch the games, all you do is look at stats.