Does the NFL really need a draft?

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, youngosu said:

While in reality the draft is an anti-trust violation. Its only allowed because the NFLPA (of which players entering the draft are not members) has agreed to it. So you could make a pretty strong argument that it absolutely is reducing their freedom of movement. 

NFL is a monopoly and the NFLPA does not represent amateur players yet creates rules limiting their freedom.

You might not find anything wrong with that, that doesn't make you right. 

Just because someone isn't as oppressed as someone who is more oppressed doesn't mean they are being treated fairly. 

Now I know the age restriction has been challenged in court but I am not sure anyone has directly challenged the draft. Would be an interesting case if someone did. 

I don't know what you do for a living but I don't you'd like to be subject to a draft. 

 

I trained in medical residency to where I am now.  It was a choice I made.  Like everyone else who did before and everyone else who will later.  

[youngosu]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I trained in medical residency to where I am now.  It was a choice I made.  Like everyone else who did before and everyone else who will later. 

Here in lies the issue

It was a choice YOU made. 

Being forced to enter the NFL draft if you want to be a pro football player is not a choice made by the individual player, its a choice that was made by a union he is not yet a member of. I did some research, courts did rule the NFL draft illegal in the 1970's (see James Smith case) but then the NFLPA bargained away the rights of those that weren't yet members of the NFLPA. 

I think that is wrong, you are free to disagree, that doesn't make you anymore right than me. 

 

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, youngosu said:

Here in lies the issue

It was a choice YOU made. 

Being forced to enter the NFL draft if you want to be a pro football player is not a choice made by the individual player, its a choice that was made by a union he is not yet a member of. I did some research, courts did rule the NFL draft illegal in the 1970's (see James Smith case) but then the NFLPA bargained away the rights of those that weren't yet members of the NFLPA. 

 

Let’s just agree to disagree.   But maybe not go with the “wonder how you would feel” angle.   FWIW the medical system of training was also decided on decades ago in NA by people in the profession and governing bodies who I had no influence over.   

 Believe it not just because you think it’s a grave injustice doesn’t make it so.   Herein lies the issue.  

[youngosu]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Let’s just agree to disagree.   But maybe not go with the “wonder how you would feel” angle.    Believe it not just because you think it’s a grave injustice doesn’t make it so.   Herein lies the issue.  

I at no point claimed it was a "grave injustice" 

I said it was wrong. I also said its a violation of anti-trust laws that the NFLPA agrees too which is 100% true. If the NFLPA said they didn't want a draft in the next CBA the NFL would be in violation of the law to hold one. As it is I think a player could sue the union for unfair representation and probably win. 

[Broncofan]

Just now, youngosu said:

I at no point claimed it was a "grave injustice" 

I said it was wrong. 

Either way just because you think it doesn’t make it so.  It’s just your opinion.   One that isn’t borne out of experience.   Since you decided to play that card.   Only fair right?   Let’s leave it at agreeing to disagree.   

[youngosu]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Either way just because you think it doesn’t make it so.  It’s just your opinion.   One that isn’t borne out of experience.   Since you decided to play that card.   Only fair right?   Let’s leave it at agreeing to disagree.   

We can agree to disagree but my opinion is based on court rulings so the courts side with my opinion. Even when they've upheld drafts they've basically told the plaintiff to sue the union instead of the league and they would likely win the case. No one has taken them up on that offer as of yet. My opinion is that someone should. 

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, youngosu said:

We can agree to disagree but my opinion is based on court rulings so the courts side with my opinion. Even when they've upheld drafts they've basically told the plaintiff to sue the union instead of the league and they would likely win the case. No one has taken them up on that offer as of yet. My opinion is that someone should. 

You go with that belief.  I'll go with the system that's worked for decades in medicine, and for decades in pro sports.  Good luck on your side.  I'll just keep SMH at the belief there's an inherent right involved.   There isn't.  

[youngosu]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

You go with that belief.  I'll go with the system that's worked for decades in medicine, and for decades in pro sports.  Good luck on your side.

You do understand I am not saying what "works" vs. what "doesn't work" right? 

I am discussing what is legal/illegal and fair/unfair. 

And its deeper than the draft. The reason sports leagues are able to hold taxpayers up for ransom when they want new stadiums is because they've essentially been exempted from anti-trust laws. You might be fine with it, frankly it doesn't really bother me as a fan but its not exactly right. 

And again, its NOT my belief. Its case law. Look it up. I am not sharing my opinion, I am sharing the opinion of federal courts. 

[youngosu]

'Wood has offered us no reason whatsoever to fashion a rule based on antitrust grounds prohibiting agreements between employers and players that use seniority as a criterion for certain employment decisions. Even if some such arrangements might be illegal because of discrimination against new employees (players), the proper action would be one for breach of the duty of fair representation.'

The decision by the 2nd Circuit Court when Leon Wood challenged the NBA Draft. The court opinion is quite clear, he should have sued the union instead of the NBA. The NFLPA would be in the same position if sued. 

"My side" if you insist on calling it that would likely win if someone decided to take it to court. 

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, youngosu said:

'Wood has offered us no reason whatsoever to fashion a rule based on antitrust grounds prohibiting agreements between employers and players that use seniority as a criterion for certain employment decisions. Even if some such arrangements might be illegal because of discrimination against new employees (players), the proper action would be one for breach of the duty of fair representation.'

The decision by the 2nd Circuit Court when Leon Wood challenged the NBA Draft. The court opinion is quite clear, he should have sued the union instead of the NBA. The NFLPA would be in the same position if sued. 

"My side" if you insist on calling it that would likely win if someone decided to take it to court. 

And why do you think no one has?   I'll answer it for you - no one sees it as an issue.   If it was even 1/10th the issue you make it to be - it would be a massive bargaining chip.  But yet it's not come up.

When it does, we can have a talk that's meaningful.  Until then, we'll just agree to disagree - and the status quo in both medicine, the NFL and other places will likely drive home the point I'm making.  

[youngosu]

7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

And why do you think no one has?   I'll answer it for you - no one sees it as an issue.   If it was even 1/10th the issue you make it to be - it would be a massive bargaining chip.  But yet it's not come up.

When it does, we can have a talk that's meaningful.  Until then, we'll just agree to disagree - and the status quo in both medicine, the NFL and other places will likely drive home the point I'm making.  

I am discussing a topic someone brought up on a message board. I don't feel the need to wait till someone sues in real life to discuss such a topic on an internet forum. 

As a fan I love the draft. As a fan I have no interest in seeing it go away. 

As for someone seeing it as an issue, not sure I agree. No one has seen it as a big enough issue to risk their future earnings in order to make such a challenge. That is different than it not being an issue. And FYI, it is a pretty big bargaining chip every time  the CBA is negotiated. Just because its not one discussed by the talking heads on ESPN when the CBA is being negotiated doesn't mean its not a big bargaining chip (the draft as slowly gotten shorter over time, that only happens due to bargaining). 

[KuechTheCat]

As far as the legality of the draft in terms of employer/employee regulations, I'm really not qualified to comment, but in terms of whether the NFL "needs" a draft system to maintain parity, I really don't trust the salary cap by itself. The problem with allowing players to simply seek the teams they want presumably based on monetary motivation is that there's nothing stopping teams from cheating the salary cap and enticing players to come to them through under-the-table money or perks. While the draft system certainly doesn't entirely prevent corruption, using the salary cap alone would almost encourage it.

[Don Roshi]

It's a sport. The draft also gives hope to fans of poor teams. It's a spectacle in itself. The NFL would lose a lot if they scrapped the draft.

As a Browns fan, the NFL season only lasts four months. It would be very difficult to keep interested if there wasn't a draft to look forward to.

[mission27]

9 hours ago, Danger said:

The Browns for example, would wind up having to fold as a franchise. Inevitably you'd see some sort of situation like that every 5-10 years where a team or two would become unsustainable and not up to par with what the league requires, and I don't mean even like the current Browns, but much much worse.

Ultimately I do think the cap protects against this. 

Like if the Browns were that bad, uncompetitive bad, they could just save up some money and way overpay a few really good draft prospects and potentially be right back in it.

[biletnikoff]

9 hours ago, cddolphin said:

Then you have European soccer, where the same 4-5 large markets compete for the championship every year.

Um...whats so different  with the nfl and the draft LOL ..it' the same teams over and over. 

 

As long as people are dumb enough to keep going to these draft events and watch it on tv like some popular series..theyll keep doing it. Nothing says dumb human like a crowd of old men, cheering or booing  what jock a team picks up.