Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[Sllim Pickens]

36 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

we're absolutely not doing this. he shouldn't be in the nba and this front office especially can't afford and probably doesn't want the blowback that would come with signing him after the **** the put rob murphy's assistant through and the way they handled that situation from start to finish. also there's no way i would trust him to not do some other terrible thing being back in michigan around his friends

the ideal offseason doesn't exist if they don't fire both weaver and monty. it's almost a waste of time to go into it again, but the fourth highest paid head coach in the nba spent almost half a season starting killian hayes. there were multiple games where ivey was the 11th man to get in. it took an intervention with the cokehead owner to convince him to put the ball in ivey's hands. i saw a tweet this week that he's playing both of his lead guards in a lineup without any shooters and he's playing all the shooters in a lineup without someone to get them the ball. he's spent all year lamenting about how bad of job he's doing and then continuing to do the exact same things the next night. i'm sincerely not exaggerating when i say there are several people on here that would have a better record coaching this team this year than monty does and all it would take is playing the players on the team who are better than the three worst players in the league. he's probably responsible for 10 losses just by giving hayes, livers, and wiseman a combined 60+ minutes. i genuinely think i could have 20 wins right now

going position by position, i think they're set on guards. maybe they can sign a vet with absolutely no intention of playing (not that we can trust monty to not give that guy 27 minutes a game), but if they're confident in the four young guards they have now, they should be the only ones playing consistently next year. and make sure someone tells tom gores that they should stagger cade-ivey, sasser-cade, ivey-grimes so he can pass it down

obviously finding wings that can play has been the issue since weaver was hired. they should re-sign fontecchio just because he can play both ways and can play both spots a little. he doesn't need big minutes, but he's a good fourth wing. i wish there was a better option (i would pay jaden mcdaniels at least $32 million) but they should offer tobias $100 million for three years. i don't care if it's an overpay or whatever else the general consensus would be, they need to put out lineups with real nba players next year, and more importantly, they need to put players around cade that not only help him, but stop actively hurting him. if they show up to training camp and the first scrimmage has stewart and duren on the same team as cade, he should walk out and demand a trade

which brings me to the next point, if they're not going to be realistic with themselves about who stewart is and is ever going to be as a player, they need to trade him (which they won't ever do because they'll never be realistic about who he is or could become). it's the exact same thing as livers and hayes where monty won't stop playing him more than he should so he needs to have the toy taken away. we know there have been multiple playoff teams interested and if you can get an early 20s pick for him, i'm taking it and running

regardless of what they do with stew, they need a center who can play defense and isn't totally washed up (finding the most washed player in the league is something weaver excels at). someone who can teach duren some things and even take some minutes from when he's been particularly awful. i said this last year and i still don't know who that guy could be, but even muscala helped on that end. plumlee or theis seem like they could fit that mold. of course, knowing weaver, the most likely thing at this point is probably a wiseman extension

the only two guys i'm really interested in at all in the draft are risacher and sarr. obviously risacher fits a positional need, and i like his size and defense, although i'm a little concerned the shooting could be a little fluky since he's not really shooting what you'd expect from the line considering his 3pt%. he'll never be a top line #1 option but we're past the point of caring about that and if they don't have that guy on the roster already, none of it really matters

i think sarr pretty clearly has the highest upside of anybody, and if he ever shoots it, he could be great next to duren, but i don't really believe in his shot. but if they're in a spot to draft him, do it and use him as insurance. if duren still looks completely lost on defense by the end of next year, see what you can get for him and maybe another young piece and make sarr the full time 5

if both of those guys are gone, i would really try to trade the pick. maybe package it with stewart for somebody. i think towns is pretty far out of our price range regardless, and they're ready to compete now around ant so i don't see why they would want ausar or even ivey because they're set at those spots and towns is just much better than both of them even with his contract. i'm sure utah will get better offers for lauri but he's probably my top target for something like this pick, stewart, and any other picks we can legally trade. hell, i'd trade stewart and the pick for taylor hendricks

I agree Bridges is not going to happen and after reading more on him and his PPO violation recently, I am done with him which sucks because again, he is the exact type of player we need at the 4 (a much younger and more athletic Tobias Harris).  

Yes I hope everyone is fired but I truly don't see Gores firing Monty.  Weaver maybe due to outside pressure but if he was going to do it, why not do it now?  If they do plan to fire him, I hope they are making contacts now with guys they want for the end of the year since there isn't much time between the end of the season and the draft.  

I also agree the guards are set with Grimes, Sasser off the bench.  A vet guard might not be a bad idea to be more of a player coach or a defensive stopper if needed.  

I don't love the idea of blowing our funds on Harris but given our track record with luring in free agents, it likely would be the best move we could make.  I don't expect it to be a game changing move but it could push us into the top 7-10 in the East with some additional growth from our current players. But as you said he likes to find washed up guys so I expect a Gordon hayward signing or something instead. As for KAT, the T-Wolves will be over the second tax apron next year and need to resign some of their depth guys.  They have never paid that level of tax and are not expected to so even though they are competing, they may move on from KAT to replenish some picks they lost for Gobert. They may be able to stretch it one more year before doing it but its inevitable once Edwards gets extended that they can't afford all the max deals. And even though I hate paying that much to KAT, I think his game would work well here and we have the space to carry him.  

As you mentioned Theiss would be a solid fit as a backup C.  Especially if we grab Sarr, that role won't play a ton if we stagger Sarr at the 4 with Duren and then the 5 when Duren takes a break.  If we don't get Sarr I would like Jalen Smith like I said before.  He can play D and has an outside shot but likely will get a deal somewhere to start.  Xavier Tillman is undersized but a solid defensive 4/5 that could be worth a depth spot on a cheap contract. Bismack Biyombo is another name that could be a solid defensive C replacement. 

I agree Sarr and Risacher are the two top targets in the draft, but if you like Risacher, it seems you would like Cody Williams.  He is an inch and a half shorter but has a two inch longer wingspan.  More athletic and a better outside shooter, playmaker and defender.  They may have similar upside but I feel Williams floor is higher. I do like Risacher but feels like he could either be Deni Avdija or Jan Vesely which is scary with a top 5 pick. There is a small chance he could be a Jayson Tatum light if he fills out a little and develops his game but I don't expect that to happen. I am getting over the rookie thing though like you said and would probably make more sense to move the pick for a vet that can help the guys we have develop. 

[catcheryea]

3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree Sarr and Risacher are the two top targets in the draft, but if you like Risacher, it seems you would like Cody Williams.  He is an inch and a half shorter but has a two inch longer wingspan.  More athletic and a better outside shooter, playmaker and defender.  They may have similar upside but I feel Williams floor is higher. I do like Risacher but feels like he could either be Deni Avdija or Jan Vesely which is scary with a top 5 pick. There is a small chance he could be a Jayson Tatum light if he fills out a little and develops his game but I don't expect that to happen. I am getting over the rookie thing though like you said and would probably make more sense to move the pick for a vet that can help the guys we have develop. 

i'll be honest, i haven't watched a second of colorado this year so most of this is based just on his numbers and reading what other people have said. but first i think he's more of a 2/3 than a 3/4 and risacher is 18 playing against grown men so i trust him more to be able to handle the physicality of the position. i didn't realize williams was shooting 45% from 3 but risacher is actually shooting slightly better (although neither have a history of being good shooters and neither has a promising ft%). the difference is williams is taking less than a quarter of his shots from 3 and risacher is taking almost half of his shots from 3 and i like the variety in the type of shots i've seen him take. i think he relocates well and he's somewhat comfortable shooting off movement so he's not just a stick him in the corner type of player

i've seen both colorado fans and non-colorado fans who say they think colorado has played their best this year without williams while risacher is second in mpg and ppg for the third best team in france and a eurocup quarterfinalist. if either were better shooters historically i'd probably be higher on williams than i am but i just trust risacher more to play his role and excel in it. i think risacher is in the keegan murray mold with some room to grow beyond that. williams probably has a much, much higher ceiling, but if the shooting is real, i think risacher is one of the safer, maybe the safest player in the class

i also think a lot of people who are really high on williams are either consciously or subconsciously letting his brother's development impact how they view him. he's better than jalen was at the same age but there's no reason to assume he'll follow the same path

[Sllim Pickens]

Amazing what happens when you build a team with proper skill sets.  We have won 3 of 4 and are now 4-6 in the last 10 games. And although that isn't great by any means, if we did that on the year we would nearly have doubled last years win total and had some excitement for the future.  Cade has been hot for the last week, Duren just had a 24/23/5 night.  Fontecchio has been a consistent 15 off the bench on efficient shooting numbers.  Ivey has been rough shooting wise but is still getting boards, moving the ball and getting to the rim which is opening it up for others.  At least we are now just a bad team and not historically bad.  

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Amazing what happens when you build a team with proper skill sets.  We have won 3 of 4 and are now 4-6 in the last 10 games. And although that isn't great by any means, if we did that on the year we would nearly have doubled last years win total and had some excitement for the future.  Cade has been hot for the last week, Duren just had a 24/23/5 night.  Fontecchio has been a consistent 15 off the bench on efficient shooting numbers.  Ivey has been rough shooting wise but is still getting boards, moving the ball and getting to the rim which is opening it up for others.  At least we are now just a bad team and not historically bad.  

There's a slight chance we could actually improve on our record from last year too

[MOSteelers56]

If Wiseman would have had Taj Gibson mentoring him from his rookie year, we'd be looking at the next Hakeem. 

[General Tso]

19 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

If Wiseman would have had Taj Gibson mentoring him from his rookie year, we'd be looking at the next Hakeem. 

3-1 in the Taj Gibson era.

[Sllim Pickens]

So given we decided to end the season the way we started it, we will have the worst record in Pistons history.  How on earth do Weaver and Monty still have jobs?  I hate you Tom Gores. 

Sad that they take a bad team, add Cade the top pick from two years prior back, add a top 5 pick this year, and supposedly upgrade our coach and we somehow get significantly worse. 

[catcheryea]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

So given we decided to end the season the way we started it, we will have the worst record in Pistons history.  How on earth do Weaver and Monty still have jobs?  I hate you Tom Gores. 

Sad that they take a bad team, add Cade the top pick from two years prior back, add a top 5 pick this year, and supposedly upgrade our coach and we somehow get significantly worse. 

i can't tell you how devastated i am that monty williams won't have a 70 loss season on his coaching record. if anybody has earned it, it's him

[Sllim Pickens]

18 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

i can't tell you how devastated i am that monty williams won't have a 70 loss season on his coaching record. if anybody has earned it, it's him

I'm ready to blow it all up again as long as the whole organization goes.  I am assuming we get the 5th pick again this year as is our luck or we likely will win the lotto this year and not have anyone worth taking there instead of last year when we could have had Wemby.  Just more wasted free agent dollars spent on guys who not only don't help but actively hurt the development of our youth.  Can't say there is any excitement for next year at this point without significant cultural changes. 

[catcheryea]

26 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm ready to blow it all up again as long as the whole organization goes.  I am assuming we get the 5th pick again this year as is our luck or we likely will win the lotto this year and not have anyone worth taking there instead of last year when we could have had Wemby.  Just more wasted free agent dollars spent on guys who not only don't help but actively hurt the development of our youth.  Can't say there is any excitement for next year at this point without significant cultural changes. 

i'm only saying this because the two, really three, people in charge of the organization are the three dumbest people in the nba, but i would trade everybody except cade. ivey is never going to figure it out under monty, largely because monty doesn't ever want him to figure it out. ausar has to go because he needs a coach who can use him to any single one of his strengths offensively, not the least creative or flexible coaching staff in the league. stewart has to go, no explanation needed. if you get sarr, move duren. if you don't, keep him for a year and see if he improves at all defensively

everybody else was already completely expendable. sasser, don't care. grimes, don't care. wiseman, china. nobody matters

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

nobody matters

Gores has driven us all to nihilism 

[catcheryea]

i think what i would actually do is trade stewart for a 1st, assuming there's still one out there for him. package that, this year's 1st, ivey, and grimes/sasser/whatever else for lauri or ingram (if he gets benched again tomorrow). that's not a deal i would accept for either one of them, but shooters shoot. move ausar to the 2 and overpay someone (tobias (this is happening either way, let's be honest)) at the other forward spot

and if they're 10-48 at the all star break, trade cade to the spurs. not because they have the most to offer, but because i want to see him play with wemby and see how many rings they can win together. and then hope and pray they get flagg and boozer or dybantsa in successive drafts

[General Tso]

I am pretty sure we are going to throw a bag at Tobias. That being said, I'm not against this if it was only like 2 years.

Some lowkey FAs I think could help the team are Naji Marshall, Nikeil Alexander-Walker, Kyle Anderson. They're good, versatile defenders that can hit a 3 that shouldn't cost that much. They don't raise the ceiling, but at least should raise the floor.

KCP or Malik Monk would be really nice as signings, bump Ivey to the bench and let him marinate.

 

I have no faith in any of this happening.

[Sllim Pickens]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:05 PM, catcheryea said:

i think what i would actually do is trade stewart for a 1st, assuming there's still one out there for him. package that, this year's 1st, ivey, and grimes/sasser/whatever else for lauri or ingram (if he gets benched again tomorrow). that's not a deal i would accept for either one of them, but shooters shoot. move ausar to the 2 and overpay someone (tobias (this is happening either way, let's be honest)) at the other forward spot

and if they're 10-48 at the all star break, trade cade to the spurs. not because they have the most to offer, but because i want to see him play with wemby and see how many rings they can win together. and then hope and pray they get flagg and boozer or dybantsa in successive drafts

I feel like the bold is the only way we get a player better than Tobias Harris in Detroit.  That being said if we add one of Lauri/Ingram and Harris to this roster, we should make the play-in.  But I am not sure it gives us a peak anywhere close to what I am hoping for.  I would say if we end up with a pick that can land Risacher or Sarr, we should just draft them instead.  I feel like the potential for finding a star is more likely with either of them over Ivey/Ausar/Duren at this point.   I wonder if we could package two of Ivey/Ausar/Duren and the pick we get for Stewart plus whatever else you mentioned above for one of Lauri/Ingram.  I almost would rather that and then run a line up of Cade, whoever wasn't traded, Lauri/Ingram, Harris, Sarr.  Either way there is very little that can happen that would get me too excited about next year.