catcheryea Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 if we were going to play of the game of who has the highest completely theoretical ceiling in the draft, matas is probably second behind sarr. in theory he's a 6'10 wing with guard skills who can shoot and create offense my problem with him is that he really isn't any of those things. he's certainly not a primary ballhandler, and he's probably not a secondary ballhandler. he can pass a little bit but he's not making advanced reads. so we know he can't play on the ball. i feel like it's being undersold how badly he shot it this year. it's not like he was low 30s from 3 and high 70s from the line or even high 20s from 3 and mid 70s from the line. he shot 26% from 3 and 69% from the line. asuar shot better in ote than matas did this year. his mechanics look good but there was almost nothing to cling onto for any hope besides that defensively i don't know who he guards. his feet aren't quick enough to keep up with smaller wings and he's probably two years away from not getting his chest caved in by bigs, so the size on that end isn't really a huge bonus either. i think he's borderline unplayable right now, especially for a team that's probably fewer than 35 games away from cade asking to be traded and this is probably something only i genuinely care about, but the ignite were so bad last year that if he came to detroit and we had the exact same season next year, it would be a significantly, significantly better year than the one he just had. matas and holland were the centerpieces of a team that was so, so, so bad that the nba decided to shut down the entire program if he were to go somewhere i could trust to develop him, that might be worth the risk, depending on the pick, but there's literally zero reason for me to believe that he would develop at all in detroit, whether it's under monty's staff or a totally new one, because there's a decade long trend of guys not improving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I am not opposed to project players because in theory our salary cap space allows us to sign actual starters while the draft picks marinate on the bench. In theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 20 minutes ago, catcheryea said: and this is probably something only i genuinely care about, but the ignite were so bad last year that if he came to detroit and we had the exact same season next year, it would be a significantly, significantly better year than the one he just had. matas and holland were the centerpieces of a team that was so, so, so bad that the nba decided to shut down the entire program That's why I'm kind of high on Matas. He was playing on such a garbage team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 17 hours ago, catcheryea said: if we were going to play of the game of who has the highest completely theoretical ceiling in the draft, matas is probably second behind sarr. in theory he's a 6'10 wing with guard skills who can shoot and create offense my problem with him is that he really isn't any of those things. he's certainly not a primary ballhandler, and he's probably not a secondary ballhandler. he can pass a little bit but he's not making advanced reads. so we know he can't play on the ball. i feel like it's being undersold how badly he shot it this year. it's not like he was low 30s from 3 and high 70s from the line or even high 20s from 3 and mid 70s from the line. he shot 26% from 3 and 69% from the line. asuar shot better in ote than matas did this year. his mechanics look good but there was almost nothing to cling onto for any hope besides that defensively i don't know who he guards. his feet aren't quick enough to keep up with smaller wings and he's probably two years away from not getting his chest caved in by bigs, so the size on that end isn't really a huge bonus either. i think he's borderline unplayable right now, especially for a team that's probably fewer than 35 games away from cade asking to be traded and this is probably something only i genuinely care about, but the ignite were so bad last year that if he came to detroit and we had the exact same season next year, it would be a significantly, significantly better year than the one he just had. matas and holland were the centerpieces of a team that was so, so, so bad that the nba decided to shut down the entire program if he were to go somewhere i could trust to develop him, that might be worth the risk, depending on the pick, but there's literally zero reason for me to believe that he would develop at all in detroit, whether it's under monty's staff or a totally new one, because there's a decade long trend of guys not improving I don't see Matas having the second highest ceiling. You are saying his ceiling because what his body type says he could be but his play on the court doesn't match that which you said yourself. He doesn't have the potential as a shooter because like you said his FT% was rotten, and that doesn't typically dramatically shift. He doesn't have potential as a ball handler. He isn't a great defender. He is being drafted on pre-G league hype. Ron Holland had just as much hype and although he also shot poorly, showed more upside. Every other player I mentioned showed more upside shooting the ball at least and most were more athletic. But again, this is like arguing over who is the tallest munchkin. I am sure someone will come out of this draft and be a very good player. It probably won't be one of the guys we draft. There always is someone but this draft is such a crapshoot that I have zero faith we find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said: I don't see Matas having the second highest ceiling. You are saying his ceiling because what his body type says he could be but his play on the court doesn't match that which you said yourself. He doesn't have the potential as a shooter because like you said his FT% was rotten, and that doesn't typically dramatically shift. He doesn't have potential as a ball handler. He isn't a great defender. He is being drafted on pre-G league hype. i wasn't saying he actually has a high ceiling. i haven't liked matas all year, even before he forgot how to shoot. i meant if we pretend that every player is the perfect idealized version of what they could be, ignoring all the negatives they've shown, that he would be up there. if he had actually shot well and looked good with the ball in his hands, and generally done the things that he was advertised as being good at, he might be the favorite to go #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 2 hours ago, catcheryea said: i wasn't saying he actually has a high ceiling. i haven't liked matas all year, even before he forgot how to shoot. i meant if we pretend that every player is the perfect idealized version of what they could be, ignoring all the negatives they've shown, that he would be up there. if he had actually shot well and looked good with the ball in his hands, and generally done the things that he was advertised as being good at, he might be the favorite to go #1 That makes sense. I wasn't saying that other than maybe for Ron Holland. Even he had shown more upside with his shooting with a better shooting % and form btu he is very much like Matas IMO. I think Rissacher, Williams, and Salaun have shown more in game that gets me excited opposed to just tools/athleticism but also could have really high ceilings. Just based on most rankings coming into the season, most had it Holland, Williams, Buzelis and of those three I think Cody showed the most. Rissacher is the highest ceiling of the group and has shown the most, but also had some rough stretches. I know you think Ausar had more potential than Rissacher but I disagree. If Ausar could shoot at all maybe but his shot was broken as a prospect. They are hoping to get the bare minimum out of him there. Rissacher is significantly better offensively which gives him a higher ceiling IMO and isn't as far behind on D as Ausar is on O. They aren't really similar players on the court but play a similar position. Ausar would be a better fit without a great PG where he can initiate offense more but he needs shooters around him. Rissacher can create his own shots or get open without the ball in his hands meaning he would fit significantly better with Cade/Ivey. I think Rissacher can become a Franz Wagner type guy which would be really helpful on our team with Ausar being the stopper off the bench. I dont think any of this is likely and see most of this draft being decent role players like Luke Kennard at best but i am sure one or two turn into really good players even if not a super star. Just dont know who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 ultimately i don't think there's anybody really draftable. maybe knecht because we know what he is as a shooter but i'm not overly enthused about it, certainly not at 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 23 minutes ago, catcheryea said: ultimately i don't think there's anybody really draftable. maybe knecht because we know what he is as a shooter but i'm not overly enthused about it, certainly not at 5 Thats pretty much my take. Just talking about what would be a best case if we do draft someone because its likely we will. Hard to trade picks in a weak draft. Although if we trade our pick for someone I am guessing whoever gets drafted with that pick becomes a star. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 The first domino has fallen. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2024/05/23/trajan-langdon-detroit-pistons-president-of-basketball-ops/73825678007/ Honestly not sure how I feel about it but if he keeps Weaver it will be an instant dud IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: The first domino has fallen. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2024/05/23/trajan-langdon-detroit-pistons-president-of-basketball-ops/73825678007/ Honestly not sure how I feel about it but if he keeps Weaver it will be an instant dud IMO. He is a good hire. We shall see on Weaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 He's a Tellem guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 i'm not forming an opinion until he does (or doesn't do) something, but i have a friend who worked under langdon for the nets and he said he's a really smart guy. and i know he doesn't feel that way about everyone he worked with because he implied that matt tellem isn't 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 51 minutes ago, catcheryea said: i'm not forming an opinion until he does (or doesn't do) something, but i have a friend who worked under langdon for the nets and he said he's a really smart guy. and i know he doesn't feel that way about everyone he worked with because he implied that matt tellem isn't That's encouraging to hear. I wanted the Wolves guy the most, but honestly, I haven't thought much about it. I just hope he picks a direction and goes for it. Even if(when) we're bad, at least there will be a direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Over at Pistonpowered they mentioned bringing in Fred Vinson as a coach could be a really important early thing Langdon could do. He's the dude who helped Lonzo fix his shot. He might have been big with Herb Jones and Ingram too. If we bring him in and he can help Ausar and Ivey, that's a huge win. It would also make me feel better about drafting a guy whose shot isn't quite there yet. Vinson has been with Langdon with NOP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 18 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: That's encouraging to hear. I wanted the Wolves guy the most, but honestly, I haven't thought much about it. I just hope he picks a direction and goes for it. Even if(when) we're bad, at least there will be a direction. Yea I think that one was a pipe dream. It was between the Dallas guy or Langdon I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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