Mind Character

Geoff Schwartz longtime quality Guard who's career was derailed by injury has given his evaluation of the OLine/Tackle Prospect in this draft class. He's a frequent collaborator and constructive discusser/debater with PFF analysts, as well as a quality podcaster on OLine and football play as a whole. He evaluates and believes Tristan Wirfs is a Guard, Becton is raw in all ways, Andrew Thomas is the best LT prospect, and Wills should stay at RT.. That's 3 OLineman (John Greco, Geoff Schwartz, and Joe Thomas) commenting at sine point in detail about WIrfs being a Guard.

The alchemy of posting walls of internet text is an elusive mystery ... Lol... good internet times..

Best Case Scenario at 10: 1.) Jedrick Wills 2.) Jeffrey Okudah 3.) If Wills, Okudah, Simmons, and Thomas are gone, Trading Down and getting tons of value Worst Case Scenario at 10 (Of the Plausible Eventualities): It's hard to imagine the Browns really going insane at 10 so it's more worst of the plausible options 1.) Passing on Wills, Okudah, or Simmons for Tristan Wirfs to play Tackle 2.) Drafting Tristan Wirfs as a Tackle 3.) K'Lavon Chaisson at 10 4.) Josh Jones at 10 5.) Trading Down and taking Grant Delpit, Ashtyn Davis, or K'Lavon Chaisson in the 1st Round 6.) Trading Down and taking Ezra Cleveland in the 1st 7.) Taking Mekhi Becton top 10 -------- Best Case in the 2nd: 1.) Robert Hunt, OG Louisiana-Lafayette 2.) Denzel Mims, WR Baylor 3.) Antoine Winfield Jr., Minnesota 4.) If we pass on Tackle in the 1st, getting Austin Jackson, LT in the second 5.) Jeff Gladney, CB TCU 6.) Jonathan Taylor, RB Wisconsin Worst Case in the 2nd: 1.) In general, taking a non-quality start for our 2nd Round 2.) Losing our mind and taking a guy like Lucas Niang, OL in the 2nd 3.) Grant Delpit, SS LSU 4.) Curtis Weaver, DE Boise State 5.) Ashtyn Davis, FS Cal 6.) Taking Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illinois then watching Browns fans rejoice when they see his Combine testing numbers

Solid, Good draft; Nice Trades. Muti's the biggest risk pick who's talent is tantalizing, but medical flags worrisome. In real life if that pick happened, I'd be worried and excited at the prospect of him being healthy. The complexion of this draft looks much different if we didn't get sniped with Robert Hunt going a pick before ours. A lesson learned during my first FFMD that team forum's watch other forum conversations and are involved in this thing as they watch players and have favorites as intently as our forum. Getting Jedrick Wills for what we did was a stunner as was turning lemons with Grant Delpit into lemonade. To come out of that with Robert Hunt, would've been an all time move but it just wasn't meant to be. Ultimately, the strategy of attempting to fix the OLine, adding a pro-bowl talent chess piece offensive versatile playmaker, a LB with outside pass rush and coverage ability, a TE with some of the highest upside according to scouts, and quality young players and a pick in return from trade is all good. Lessons Learned Potentially for the Real Draft: 1.) The run on WRs was so insane that even though there's insane depth in the class the quality WRs were all gone by round 3. 2.) Round 3 and 4 are where we'll likely see the LB Quality fall off 3.) The top of the 2nd Round is going to be filled with tremendous talent so even in an armaggedon scenario where the top Tackles are gone forcing the Browns to trade down, getting a pick in the top 15 of the 2nd should be one of the pillar requirements for such a trade. ----------------

Asiasi would be my clear choice at this stage in the draft though I'm down for whatever the group is down for.

----------- With Strnad off the board, then Devin Asiasi, TE UCLA would be the pick as the best player available in the draft by a die margin in my opinion. Also, means that the trade downs that didn't materialize wouldn't have been worth it anyway either given the players that have gone off the board in the last 20 picks.

@NudeTayne On my real final big board, I have two players left that have potential pro-bowler and high quality starter upside that will be quality first year starters. Justin Strnad, LB Wake Forrest Devin Asiasi, TE UCLA I honestly don't know which one is best. The more I dug into their tape the more belief I have in them. I wish we could get both to complete the draft. Strnad was a captain and has more plus intangibles and will come in and stat over any talent currently on the roster, but Asiasi might be the better prospect talent wise. -------------- Then, there are those that I believe have quality starter upside by year 2 or 3: Joe Reed, WR/KR/PR Virginia L’Jarius Sneed, CB La Tech (Not at Safety; He’s Cheeks at Safety) Tony Brown, WR Colorado Kristian Welch, LB Iowa ----------------- Lastly, there are longterm developmental starter types that may ascend down the line or not. Darnay Holmes, NCB UCLA Trajan Bandy, NCB Miami Terrence Steele, OT Texas Tech Josiah Deguara, HB/TE Cincinnati Daishawn Dixon, OG San DIego State Kindle Vildor, CB/NCB Gerogia Southern

utter madness

We are up two picks from now. I tried to pursue trades with the Eagles, Lions, Vikings Buffalo, and Broncos to no avail by way of either non-response or their board consensus being against a trade. A member of the Packers board offered 176 (30th Pick in the 5th Round) and 210 (30th pick in the 6th Round) for Our 157 (11th Pick in the 5th Round acquired from Atlanta). That was days ago and I have yet to reach out to him and see if the offer still exists; however, I don't think that deal makes sense in terms of the quality of player available at 210 over 50 after what would have been the 157th pick. In truth, there are only 6 more players left on my big board that I really believe one 3 of which I'm all in on. The other 3 are still what I think are good players. I know for a fact that 2 of the 3 won't be around long. Assuming we don't trade I'll wait until the Browns are on the clock before posting the remaining board.

Seeking Trade Down: The Cleveland Browns are looking to trade down from #157 coming up in two picks. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Browns contingent here. Are the Buffalo contingent interested in targeting a player at #157 via trade of #168 and #189?

Becton was his guy on the show Cleveland Browns Daily as well. He gave general "they're all good at LT" comments on the show that you linked, but he was far more specific and detailed about his comments about the Tackle Prospects on his extended show appearance before. I wonder if he's in the know or if the Browns have turned to him for another perspective on things much like the organization did when they asked for his help vetting Kevin Stefanski's references and background check info.

Browns contingent here again. Are the Eagles contingent interested in targeting a player at #157 for #169 and #191?

Pick #157 still has you all's name on it. We have ham samiches and half eaten bags of doritos to add in as sweetners to get the deal done. We may even consider the cool breeze caprisun double-pack of the lukewarm variety if we must. No, but seriously, let's make a deal and see if we can figure something out. But back to not seriously, I wrote down 1 name on a post it note in our GM office before the draft process as a reminder. I pulled it out and it said, "Jermaine O'Neal's Sliding Punch No Matter What."

@Cutler06 @BroncoBruin @broncos_fan _from _uk "Sources" say a deal between the Browns and Broncos never materialized. "The Drive" Peace/Closure was not possible via a trade agreement and we Browns fans will thus continue to walk the Earth as ghosts seeking closure unable to cross over to the peaceful land of football fandom bliss and rest. That is of you all's doing. We needed it your help. Shame on you. @BowserBroncos Dalton Keene is going to get wild in the pros. Great pick. Great sleeper. But more seriously though It's all good to see things differently. As we know, various draft value indices are approximation metrics and tools created by people to help human beings in different groups come up with a common currency/language of value exchange in the NFL Draft. Some trade charts take into account historical data while others focus more on other factors. All in all, the value is that year's draft specific based on the fall off of talent and based on potential targeted player groups. Based on our collective discussion of this year's draft pool, there is a steep fall off in talent after about the mid-point of the 5th round and that's for most position groups. So, those that think that was unequitable value exchange in that trade proposal that's one perspective of valuation and certainly understandable one, but not in my estimation the absolute as close terms give or take a pick or player to the one proposed could be a more equitable exchange. Either way, good internet distraction times. It's all good. The only question I have is What torn ACL Big Ten TE will John Elway draft next?

Good questions. Toughness as in Mental Toughness, Grit, the Ability to Work and Elevate through Adversity, an Energy Giver in a time of Crisis/Stress, and Emotional/Overall Maturity. For the purpose of this thread, I didn't include "body toughness," even though it's important butI don't have direct medical evals on players even though I like to take into account sourced info on players' medical flags. There's also another reason why I didn't include "body toughness." That's because there's a huge difference between a guy that gets injured a lot but plays through everything he can at as high a level as he can and leaves all on the field. Those type of players only miss times when they simply can't go. Fans always say things like "that player is weak" and express disdain for that player in ways that show they don't know how fluky injuries can be or that injuries are guaranteed in a physical sport like football. So, I didn't want to overvalue guys without injury history simply because they haven't been injured and miss out on a guy who's been injured but is as tough as nails but happened to have his body fail him in a contact sport. There is also something to be said about the physical toughness of bouncing back from an injury and being close to, at, or beyond the level of physical strength, endurance, agility, etc compared to before injury. JJ Watt to me is a STA guy who's body has failed him. He's tough. That's why Tua makes the list (AND not according to my opinions but what multiple converging sources have said) because he is thought to be Elite Leadership and Accountability wise, He's a mentally tough individual of a high order, and he's smart/mature and studies the game in ways that are expressed as Elite according to teammates, peers, coaches, and others with direct contact with him. You're right that foreseeable shortcomings of players have prevented positive careers arcs of many players. Most players in the NFL fail because they are not smart, mentally tough, accountable, leaders, or investors in the game/improvement. Injuries are a reality as well though,

This. I think teams are going to be paying to trade up specifically for Medical Evaluation Certainty throughout the draft.

Berry and co. love Kenneth Murray. They're probably hoping he'll be there at 41. I wanted to love his tape so much more based on the off the chart intangibles, but his coverage ability and instincts against the pass are so beyond cheeks it hurt me to watch. He doesn't fit well in the run game or take on blocks well either, but his range sideline to sideline is absolutely insane and elite. He also doesn't play with much instinctual feel for range playmaking and to me that's a no no for a LB. He has to see it clearly and then he makes the play at the speed of light with full effort. His impact in the locker room and his ability to make splash plays would be immense, but I just don't see him ever developing the feel for the game required to be a real force in the league although I'll root like heck for him and hope he gets there. There are far worse picks we could make at 41 than Kenneth Murray and I don't want to bet against the young man, but man is that pass coverage ability and instincts cheek cheeks. Ultimately though, these are 21 year olds that have a chance to be something different in 2 to 3 years. Those first few years though are going to be home runs and whiffs though with him even if he takes an unexpected leap down the line.

All good. No worries. As the pick time gets closer, we can continue discussions if desired to see if something could be figured out that would work for both sides. Until then... or if not then... good internet distraction times to all. Just Remember, the Dream of David Blough lived in Cleveland first.. .... many of us still have not given up on him... and by many I mean 3 of us... ...so don't you dare give up on him yet... he'll bounce back.. the Bloughian prophecy foretold of it.... I still believe ...

Late in the process one of my favorite guys who's tape has grown on me to the point he's now a "my guy" is Rashard Lawrence, DT/NT LSU. He plays with his hair on fire and has some the highest flash plays that exceed Derrick Brown's highest level plays. Unfortunately, he has a lot of medical flags. If the combine recheck cleared him in the Browns FO's mind, he's going to be a steal of steals in the 4th or 5th round. He has enough medical concerns in a strange year of medical check barriers that he's going to slide a long way in the draft. He flashes outside pass rush when used as a 43DE and displays a high level of movement skills for such a big guy. For some odd reasons, those pass rush skills wane when he's lines up inside, but from time to time he gets busy. Has the disposition, strength, and mentality to play the run at a high level, but a bum shoulder that consistently gives him problems prevents him from going all out on consecutive plays.

Lol .. Ah yes... the elusive Fulgham.... I believe I sought that once (see below) Ahh... January 2019.... it was a simpler time... it was the best of times; it was the worst of times .... we were young then. Well... sounds like I was wrong as you lot may be sending off a Fulgham for a bag of lukewarm half eaten doritos. Probably will have to pass as it sounds that he didn't "sit up straight and respect the process" during team meetings. I don't know if we want that type of guy in the locker room.

Greetings from the town partially broken by John Elway's "The Drive" and other bad Broncos encounters. It is time for our cities to heal wounds and make peace via trade. We seek a potential trade partner for our #157 Overall Pick (11th Pick in the 5th Round near 4th Rounder). We're looking to trade down and saw that the Broncos owned 177, 179 and 182. Our contingent wanted to know if the Broncos contingent would be open to trade talks around pick 157 for 177 and 179. We're open to hearing your thoughts. It's time for us to heal.

Greetings from a similar amazing, joyous desolate, miserable gray skies wasteland city known as Cleveland, Ohio. We seek a potential trade partner for our #157 Overall Pick (11th Pick in the 5th Round aka near 4th Round Pick). Currently, it seems that you all pick 28 spots after that at 185 followed by 186. You then have a pick at 199, Our contingent wanted to know if you good beautiful gray sky midwestern fellows would be open to trading 157 and other draft/player considerations for 185, 186, and 199. We're open to your ideas and thoughts.