ThatJerkDave Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 These guys only want Shane Ray because he knows Michael Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 21 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: And that's where I kind of fall out of line. Every time someone is available we always go wow this could be a great trade etc etc. Why is he available? Why did they decline before they got a replacement? He was never healthy last year and good before that. But it seems like we just go down the list every year as people come available and we want them all. Everyone is bright sided to high hell like there's no negative and all positive. I'd like these ideas more if I didn't feel like it wasn't always the same people who want everyone ever from any team that ever existed pushing for them. (None of this is directed at you btw.) I'd be all about a Shane Ray trade. But not for a damn second imo. I think people get too wrapped up in the excitement of new toys to ever really look at both sides. It's just everything is perfect. Do this and you win titles! Trades like this happen all the time that don't amount to much. Haven't seen anyone suggest a 2nd round pick. Might take a 3rd to talk Denver into giving up that type of player for the 2018 season and that's very good value for Ray IMO. As for his decline, he had none. He's 24 years old and was a top-rated EDGE player in 2016. His only knock has been some injury problems. I suspect he would be available because Denver just added Chubb, Miller isn't going anywhere any time soon and they also have Shaquill Barrett, another good young EDGE guy. This has nothing to do with just getting a new player for the hell of it or jumping on any one who comes available. We have a depth problem at EDGE, here is a solution. We are talking about a 24-year old player who would instantly become our No. 3 EDGE player. If that could happen by sending over a 4th, or even a 3rd round pick, my question would be what idiot wouldn't do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 On 4/29/2018 at 7:24 AM, LuckyIrish23 said: Denver Broncos- Shane Ray for 2019 2nd @packfanfb Am I reading that wrong somehow? But that's what the OP is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Shane Rays 8 sack season came under pretty ideal conditions: Von on the other side, really good secondary to back him up. But you know who had even more sacks in 2016? Erik Walden (with 11). Let's get him back ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Haven't seen anyone suggest a 2nd round pick. Might take a 3rd to talk Denver into giving up that type of player for the 2018 season and that's very good value for Ray IMO. As for his decline, he had none. He's 24 years old and was a top-rated EDGE player in 2016. His only knock has been some injury problems. I suspect he would be available because Denver just added Chubb, Miller isn't going anywhere any time soon and they also have Shaquill Barrett, another good young EDGE guy. This has nothing to do with just getting a new player for the hell of it or jumping on any one who comes available. We have a depth problem at EDGE, here is a solution. We are talking about a 24-year old player who would instantly become our No. 3 EDGE player. If that could happen by sending over a 4th, or even a 3rd round pick, my question would be what idiot wouldn't do that? Why doesn't Denver want this guy for 2019. Why not take the option and see what happens and if they want to trade him early so the team gets two years. Now you're giving up a 3 for a guy with one year on his deal. And I meant statistical decline if I even said that word, I'm too lazy to scroll back up. And I gave him a pass for it and you still had to go all out sunshine and rainbows with him when I wasn't even being critical. When nobody or 30 other teams don't, are they all idiots? I'll say it until I die, you want basically every name player available. You're making him sound like the second coming. 13 sacks in three years or whatever it is. A "top edge" in 2016...8 sacks. Pretty good. But he's not THESE ARE THE MOVES THAT CREATE CHAMPIONSHIPS good. Such hyperbole to justify you wanting everyone ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said: @packfanfb Am I reading that wrong somehow? But that's what the OP is? I stand corrected, never saw the "2nd" -- I've been suggesting a 3rd-4th. Truthfully though, IMO Ray is closer to a player worth a 2nd than a 4th-5th. He's a good player. I probably wouldn't give up a 2nd, but I wouldn't chastise Gute for the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, packfanfb said: I stand corrected, never saw the "2nd" -- I've been suggesting a 3rd-4th. Truthfully though, IMO Ray is closer to a player worth a 2nd than a 4th-5th. He's a good player. I probably wouldn't give up a 2nd, but I wouldn't chastise Gute for the move. I'm not trading a second for that guy on a one year deal. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: Shane Rays 8 sack season came under pretty ideal conditions: Von on the other side, really good secondary to back him up. But you know who had even more sacks in 2016? Erik Walden (with 11). Let's get him back ;p Top EDGE right there This is what I'm talking about though.. Looking at ALL of it. Not just omg this could be so great. That absolutely factored into his sack total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, PossibleCabbage said: Shane Rays 8 sack season came under pretty ideal conditions: Von on the other side, really good secondary to back him up. But you know who had even more sacks in 2016? Erik Walden (with 11). Let's get him back ;p What are you going to argue next, that Reggie Gilbert > Shane Ray? How about Fackrell too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said: I'm not trading a second for that guy on a one year deal. Ever. Obviously you do it with the intent on extending him. Again, he's 24 years old, not 35. Stated another way....Imagine that a 24-25 year old Shane Ray is your 2019 3rd round draft pick. Would a single person here argue with that pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 If Shane Ray was good for 8 sacks across from Miller, and Fackrell is good for 3 sacks across from Matthews/Perry, Fackrell still sucks and I'd rather have Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Primary value of draft picks is that you get a guy cheap for 4 years. Ray is a free agent after this season, at which point he won't be cheap (mediocre edge players get paid in the NFL). So if you were going to trade for him the price would have to much closer to like a 6th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: Why doesn't Denver want this guy for 2019. Why not take the option and see what happens and if they want to trade him early so the team gets two years. Now you're giving up a 3 for a guy with one year on his deal. And I meant statistical decline if I even said that word, I'm too lazy to scroll back up. And I gave him a pass for it and you still had to go all out sunshine and rainbows with him when I wasn't even being critical. When nobody or 30 other teams don't, are they all idiots? I'll say it until I die, you want basically every name player available. You're making him sound like the second coming. 13 sacks in three years or whatever it is. A "top edge" in 2016...8 sacks. Pretty good. But he's not THESE ARE THE MOVES THAT CREATE CHAMPIONSHIPS good. Such hyperbole to justify you wanting everyone ever. Who do you want, anyone? Or is this roster ready in your mind? I've consistently preached about one player up until now, Dez Bryant. I was all around the Breeland train, but Alexander and Jackson alleviate that hole at CB so no need for Breeland. If Shane Ray can be had for a 3rd rd pick, add his name to the list. If not him, add a Barwin (even though Barwin at 31-32 years old isn't the player Ray is). Basically, I want a vet WR and another EDGE guy. Given the holes on the roster, I'd say those desires are pretty logical and reasonable. So who do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: Primary value of draft picks is that you get a guy cheap for 4 years. Ray is a free agent after this season, at which point he won't be cheap (mediocre edge players get paid in the NFL). So if you were going to trade for him the price would have to much closer to like a 6th round pick. This is only worth a damn if the draft pick is a good player. If you draft Kyler Fackrell in the 3rd round, you could have him cheap for 15 years and it would be a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I think you have to go back to the new scheme, and edge rushers pass rushing skills seem to be less important in the new scheme, because he uses a lot of creative blitzes including a lot of DB blitzes, meaning they need players with more versatility than straight up only good at a single thing... which is why the Packers basically started the draft off with 3 coverage guys. Also Pettine's teams have kept a smaller number of edge rushers. If there is a trade, I'm thinking it's going to either be a smaller trade... or something involving someone taking up some cap space, like Cobb, Bulaga, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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