Current Top 10 NFL HC

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Why do people still think John Harbaugh is a top 10 coach when the Ravens have been exactly league average since 2012, including missing the playoffs 4/5 of those years?

[The BILLievers]

2 hours ago, OleXmad said:

I don't, haven't watched ESPN in years mate not even for the draft anymore. 

You literally lucked into the playoffs, if the Bengals don't beat the ravens you don't make the playoffs.

Of course you're rebuilding, your team actually got worse compared to last year. 

 

Idk where to start but that's a dumb argument... Yeah and if the Titans don't win in say week 12 against the Colts they don't make the playoffs. What's your point? The nfl season is 17 weeks long, not just week 17.

 

And how did we get worse? Was it getting rid of the QB who never had the bills ranked higher than 30th in passing offense? Or Richie and Wood retiring? Our defense improved drastically but a case can be made on offense I get that. But it's not like we were dealing with a franchise QB before lol

[The BILLievers]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

The Bills are probably one of the bottom 5 teams in the league next year, not because of poor planning but because of where they are in the process of building. Buffalo wouldn't have taken Josh Allen if you were in a win now mode. But by all means, keep pretending the Bills' front office's main focus is this upcoming season. 

1) The same thing was said last year and we had winning record and made the playoffs.

2) I literally said the Bills are still in rebuilding in my original post?

[Xmad]

3 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

Idk where to start but that's a dumb argument... Yeah and if the Titans don't win in say week 12 against the Colts they don't make the playoffs. What's your point? The nfl season is 17 weeks long, not just week 17.

 

And how did we get worse? Was it getting rid of the QB who never had the bills ranked higher than 30th in passing offense? Or Richie and Wood retiring? Our defense improved drastically but a case can be made on offense I get that. But it's not like we were dealing with a franchise QB before lol

I don't know how to put it in simpler terms for you or to explain it better so I'll let it go.

You got worse at QB (Say what you want about Tyrod but he was a solid game manager, I get the trade and it was good value) and the o-line is a massive issue with your best starter being Dion Dawkins at this point.... We all know Allen is going to make starts this year and behind that line he won't last 3 games. 

The bills are in a worse position than they were last year, sure you're rebuilding but that doesn't excuse the roster getting worse.

[Heinz D.]

On 5/27/2018 at 5:27 AM, Pugger said:

If any HC in this discussion is similar to McCarthy it should be Payton.  His defenses for several years since his SB bowl win have been mediocre until last season.  Why is he not "penalized' for having Brees like Mike is for having Rodgers?  If Sean lost Brees for most of a season his team would suffer too like most coaches do in a similar situation.  

Pretty much every unbiased, knowledgeable observer of the NFL would place Payton above McCarthy. Payton is normally seen as a very innovative coach (and I'm not talking onside kick at halftime of the Super Bowl--that's still the dumbest thing I've seen a coach do in the playoffs). Remember, Payton has a track record under Parcells, too. McCarthy's a good coach, just a shade outside of the top ten, in my (and many others') opinions.

2 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Why do people still think John Harbaugh is a top 10 coach when the Ravens have been exactly league average since 2012, including missing the playoffs 4/5 of those years?

He's made some boneheaded mistakes with his staff, but...in general, he's kept that team afloat even when their roster has been "in flux" (I'm being generous there) in  recent seasons. 

[Scout]

Bill Belichick

Sean McVay

Doug Pederson 

Ron Rivera

Andy Reid

Mike Zimmer

Mike Tomlin

Doug Marrone

Sean Payton

Dan Quinn 

 

HM: Anthony Lynn

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

9 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

He's made some boneheaded mistakes with his staff, but...in general, he's kept that team afloat even when their roster has been "in flux" (I'm being generous there) in  recent seasons. 

Is that all it takes? Are head coaches in the NFL really this bad that as long as you keep a team league average, you get the benefit of the doubt to be a top 10 coach? Does no one else see the disparity in how Harbaugh's teams have fallen since Ray Lewis and Ed Reed walked out the door? Yeah, we lost people after 2012 as any Superbowl team does, but the broad coaching decisions made since then should be more than enough for a top 10 coach to rebuild his roster and maintain success. However, what's actually happened is that since 2012 the Ravens went straight into irrelevancy and have never resurfaced.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, The BILLievers said:

Idk where to start but that's a dumb argument... Yeah and if the Titans don't win in say week 12 against the Colts they don't make the playoffs. What's your point? The nfl season is 17 weeks long, not just week 17.

This isn't a strong counter, because literally your entire season hinged on another team winning in week 17, and that team was down to their final play, with the Ravens at a 99% chance of winning the game, and the Ravens blew it. That's literally luck, my friend. You can spin it however you want, but that's not the same as saying some team should've won in week 2 or week 12. Your destiny was out of your hands completely, and had the Bengals not converted a 4th and for-goddamn-ever on one of the best defenses in the NFL to score a touchdown, Bills would've missed the playoffs.

[Heinz D.]

23 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Is that all it takes? Are head coaches in the NFL really this bad that as long as you keep a team league average, you get the benefit of the doubt to be a top 10 coach? Does no one else see the disparity in how Harbaugh's teams have fallen since Ray Lewis and Ed Reed walked out the door? Yeah, we lost people after 2012 as any Superbowl team does, but the broad coaching decisions made since then should be more than enough for a top 10 coach to rebuild his roster and maintain success. However, what's actually happened is that since 2012 the Ravens went straight into irrelevancy and have never resurfaced.

Kinda? I mean...it's pretty commonly known that Ozzie has very firm control over that roster, and...well...he hasn't done particularly well with that lately. And the Flacco contract was a disaster that should have been avoided. And as to your use of "success", that's kind of a relative term. Just look around the league to see what has happened to a whole slew of other teams since 2012. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

15 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Kinda? I mean...it's pretty commonly known that Ozzie has very firm control over that roster, and...well...he hasn't done particularly well with that lately. And the Flacco contract was a disaster that should have been avoided. And as to your use of "success", that's kind of a relative term. Just look around the league to see what has happened to a whole slew of other teams since 2012. 

One very simple measure of success is making the playoffs, which we haven't done at all sans 2014 when Gary Kubiak was our OC. Every single other year we've missed the playoffs, and if any other team had done that in that span of time, there's no way in hell the head coach would still be considered top 10.

If the Seahawks, ever since 2013, had missed the playoffs every year except 2015 Pete Carroll wouldn't be regarded as a top 10. Hell, the Seahawks are ONE YEAR removed from the playoffs and already people are putting Carroll as a fringe top-10 coach. Harbaugh hasn't done squat in 6 years and people are still thinking he's top 10, or top 5? I don't understand.

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

One very simple measure of success is making the playoffs, which we haven't done at all sans 2014 when Gary Kubiak was our OC. Every single other year we've missed the playoffs, and if any other team had done that in that span of time, there's no way in hell the head coach would still be considered top 10.

If the Seahawks, ever since 2013, had missed the playoffs every year except 2015 Pete Carroll wouldn't be regarded as a top 10. Hell, the Seahawks are ONE YEAR removed from the playoffs and already people are putting Carroll as a fringe top-10 coach. Harbaugh hasn't done squat in 6 years and people are still thinking he's top 10, or top 5? I don't understand.

No one here is putting Carroll at the fringe--that I recall, anyway. I also think most of us aren't looking solely at playoff appearances as our determining measure of excellence--are there ten other coaches who have made the playoffs each of the last five years? 

Also, to what do you attribute the special treatment you perceive being given to Harbaugh? 

[The BILLievers]

16 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

This isn't a strong counter, because literally your entire season hinged on another team winning in week 17, and that team was down to their final play, with the Ravens at a 99% chance of winning the game, and the Ravens blew it. That's literally luck, my friend. You can spin it however you want, but that's not the same as saying some team should've won in week 2 or week 12. Your destiny was out of your hands completely, and had the Bengals not converted a 4th and for-goddamn-ever on one of the best defenses in the NFL to score a touchdown, Bills would've missed the playoffs.

Lol you can spin it however you want but your best defense choked in the most important play of your entire season so keep talking about luck and 99% chance winning, the Ravens choked and for that reason got bounced.

And yes it is a strong counter. Both teams ended up with 9 wins and 7 L's and the Bills had the tie breaker over a 16 week season. The theatrics of it all happening was awesome tho not going to lie.

[Heinz D.]

23 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

Lol you can spin it however you want but your best defense choked in the most important play of your entire season so keep talking about luck and 99% chance winning, the Ravens choked and for that reason got bounced.

And yes it is a strong counter. Both teams ended up with 9 wins and 7 L's and the Bills had the tie breaker over a 16 week season. The theatrics of it all happening was awesome tho not going to lie.

I'm not going to weigh in on either side of the squabble you dudes got going on, as it was pretty clear to me McDermott did a good job coaching his team last year, playoffs or not. I just didn't have him in my top ten...

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

39 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

Lol you can spin it however you want but your best defense choked in the most important play of your entire season so keep talking about luck and 99% chance winning, the Ravens choked and for that reason got bounced.

And yes it is a strong counter. Both teams ended up with 9 wins and 7 L's and the Bills had the tie breaker over a 16 week season. The theatrics of it all happening was awesome tho not going to lie.

Again, just for clarification, your entire season came down to another team converted 4th and forever. They had <1% chance of winning the game.

That is luck. Yeah, we choked, this isn't even about the Ravens. If you haven't noticed yet, the entirety of my time in this thread is arguing about John Harbaugh being a top 10 coach when he hasn't done squat since 2012. It doesn't change the fact that your argument here that the Bills didn't rely on luck to make the playoffs is god awful.

[Spartacus]

17 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Pretty much every unbiased, knowledgeable observer of the NFL would place Payton above McCarthy. Payton is normally seen as a very innovative coach (and I'm not talking onside kick at halftime of the Super Bowl--that's still the dumbest thing I've seen a coach do in the playoffs).

Every unbiased, knowledgeable observer has seen Payton miss the playoffs 5 times in his 11 years coaching the Saints all with Drew Brees as the QB. I will say he is a more innovative offensive coach that Mike McCarthy but his overall body work is worse. If we are comparing OCs I can totally get on board with Payton being better but that's not the HC only job. 

Payton:

5 Missed Playoffs in 11 years. 54 % Playoff Percentage

2 Conf Championship Game Appearances with 1 Win. 

Winning Percentage 59.7% 

1 Superbowl win.

McCarthy:

3 Missed Playoffs in 12 years. 75% Playoff Percentage

4 Conf Championship Game Appearances with 1 Win. 

Winning Percentage 63.3%

1 Superbowl win. 

 

Both have had HOF QBs for their entire careers as head coach. If the HC job is to win games I don't see how any unbiased, knowledgable observer can see Payton as the better HC. Better OC? I'll give you that. Better HC? I don't know what your relying on to come to that conclusion.