Current Top 10 NFL HC

[Danger]

Give me Payton over McCarthy every day of the week.

[EaglesPeteC]

On 5/24/2018 at 12:11 PM, Heinz D. said:

A joke? I assume?

I almost didn't even put Pederson on my list at all. Changed my mind as he did do a fine job last year. We'll have to see how things go in the long run. 

y u no watch super bowl?

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Both have had HOF QBs for their entire careers as head coach. If the HC job is to win games I don't see how any unbiased, knowledgable observer can see Payton as the better HC. Better OC? I'll give you that. Better HC? I don't know what your relying on to come to that conclusion. 

The thing I'm using to rely on the conclusion that Payton is treated more reverently by the football media, and people involved with the league (through interviews) is what those folks write, do, and say. Now, granted, that's using the opinions of others to back up my own opinion, which, in turn,  was used to construct a whole list based on opinions.

Is it your experience that football media folk treat McCarthy pretty much the same way they treat Payton?

More importantly, how would you rank them both?

13 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

y u no watch super bowl?

Lol. 

Yeah, I did. For my top ten I didn't want to include first year HCs unless I really felt they deserved it. I wavered on Pederson because he inherited a very talented team, but in the end, decided he simply did too good of a job not to include on the list. He'll always have a warm spot in my heart for rubbing Belichick's smug nose in it with that trick play in the Super Bowl...

[Danger]

1. Bill Bellichik
2. Pete Carroll 
3. Mike Tomlin
4. Sean Payton
5. Doug Pederson
6. John Harbaugh
7. Mike McCarthy
8. Mike Zimmer
9. Ron Rivera
10. Dan Quinn

HM: Andy Reid

[Spartacus]

6 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

The thing I'm using to rely on the conclusion that Payton is treated more reverently by the football media, and people involved with the league (through interviews) is what those folks write, do, and say. Now, granted, that's using the opinions of others to back up my own opinion, which, in turn,  was used to construct a whole list based on opinions.

Is it your experience that football media folk treat McCarthy pretty much the same way they treat Payton?

More importantly, how would you rank them both?

Both would be somewhere right outside the top 5 I would expect. I'm not much for lists as I don't think there is much separating most coaches. The two I give a lot of credit to that I find a tier above right now are BB and Zimmer. I think they have both shown the ability to get the most out of BOTH units of the football team even with questionable talent. Payton and McCarthy I would probably put in the 2nd tier. Highly successful coaches that have not been able to consistently field balanced teams.

 

 

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Both would be somewhere right outside the top 5 I would expect. I'm not much for lists as I don't think there is much separating most coaches. The two I give a lot of credit to that I find a tier above right now are BB and Zimmer. I think they have both shown the ability to get the most out of BOTH units of the football team even with questionable talent. Payton and McCarthy I would probably put in the 2nd tier. Highly successful coaches that have not been able to consistently field balanced teams.

 

 

So...like 6-10 then, I suppose. I'd agree that's probably about right. 

[CP3MVP]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:57 PM, Darth Pees said:

Why do people still think John Harbaugh is a top 10 coach when the Ravens have been exactly league average since 2012, including missing the playoffs 4/5 of those years?

People are still caught up in playoff victories over NE 

[BAConrad]

On 5/31/2018 at 2:28 PM, Heinz D. said:

The thing I'm using to rely on the conclusion that Payton is treated more reverently by the football media, and people involved with the league (through interviews) is what those folks write, do, and say. Now, granted, that's using the opinions of others to back up my own opinion, which, in turn,  was used to construct a whole list based on opinions.

Is it your experience that football media folk treat McCarthy pretty much the same way they treat Payton?

More importantly, how would you rank them both?

Lol. 

Yeah, I did. For my top ten I didn't want to include first year HCs unless I really felt they deserved it. I wavered on Pederson because he inherited a very talented team, but in the end, decided he simply did too good of a job not to include on the list. He'll always have a warm spot in my heart for rubbing Belichick's smug nose in it with that trick play in the Super Bowl...

Pederson isnt a 1 year HC though...he was hired in 2016.

And he inherited a 4-12 team just FWIW.

He, like almost any successful HC, definitely benefitted from having a very good or great GM/staff around him. 

But I also think that people underrate just how hard it is for HC'es who also call the plays on offense....thus, the ones who do look even more impressive. 

 

[///mcompact]

52 minutes ago, BAConrad said:

Pederson isnt a 1 year HC though...he was hired in 2016.

And he inherited a 4-12 team just FWIW.

Huh?  They went 7-9 in 2015.   Did you look at NFCE records wrong and mix this up with Dallas' 4-12 outcome?   No need to "poor-mouth" to build your case.

Pederson took a 7-9 team and then took them to the heights of ....7-9 his first year (would've been 6-10 without a 'freebie' from the Cowboys week 17). Which is not a knock on him.  Not every coach can install a new program and see an immediate improvement year one (McVay being an exception).

Anyway, is Pederson a current top-10 HC? Right now, considering recency bias, absolutely. Top-3, IMO.   Is his ranking "future-proof" after one unbelievable year?  Eight ball says, "Not so fast".

 

[BAConrad]

2 hours ago, ///mcompact said:

Huh?  They went 7-9 in 2015.   Did you look at NFCE records wrong and mix this up with Dallas' 4-12 outcome?   No need to "poor-mouth" to build your case.

Pederson took a 7-9 team and then took them to the heights of ....7-9 his first year (would've been 6-10 without a 'freebie' from the Cowboys week 17). Which is not a knock on him.  Not every coach can install a new program and see an immediate improvement year one (McVay being an exception).

Anyway, is Pederson a current top-10 HC? Right now, considering recency bias, absolutely. Top-3, IMO.   Is his ranking "future-proof" after one unbelievable year?  Eight ball says, "Not so fast".

 

I was thinking of the year Chip Kelly came in (when we went 4-12 in Reid's last year). Forgot we somehow won 7 games in 2015 considering how bad that team was. 

The point of my post was to correct him when he called DP a "first year coach".

And of course I dont think 2017 season automatically means Pederson is going to be some HOF coach. 

But Im curious....because I can't think of any...but how many coaches had a season like Doug did, in which he legitimately put up one of the 5 best seasons any head coach ever has, and went on to be bad or even just mediocre?

I mean Im only 26 so I didnt get to watch some of the former greats like Parcells (well the Giants version of Parcells), or Walsh, or Johnson....but Doug's season from the very first snap until the last one in which he won a SB by completely outcoaching the GOAT in BB, is as impressive as Ive ever seen and he was great ALL season long. 

[///mcompact]

I don't disagree. Doug clearly "seems" to be a better NFL coach than Chip Kelly, beyond what season records will tell you.  I just wanted to point out that using season results to paint a picture or defend a position can be misleading.  Hefty Reid left Chip a 4-12 team (bottom of the division) that he, in turn, took to a 10-6 division winning season in 2013, a 10-6 (2nd) season in 2014 and, finally, a 7-9 record (2nd) in 2015 (Man...did the NFCE suck that year or what?!)  He destroyed the roster and was clearly an overall cancer to everything he touched, but he got early results. 

[Heinz D.]

10 hours ago, BAConrad said:

Pederson isnt a 1 year HC though...he was hired in 2016.

And he inherited a 4-12 team just FWIW.

Missed a season. My bad. Much apologizing. However, my overall point could be applied to second year coaches, as well as those coming off their first. I was getting at a lack of HC experience, overall.

And no...he inherited a very talented team.

7 hours ago, BAConrad said:

But Im curious....because I can't think of any...but how many coaches had a season like Doug did, in which he legitimately put up one of the 5 best seasons any head coach ever has, and went on to be bad or even just mediocre?

There have been some doofus coaches who have thrown together a season or two where they had good records. Wayne Fontes, **** Jauron, etc. As far as guys who had truly great seasons, then went on to fizzle out, I can't really think of any. Schottenheimer doesn't really qualify, as his career was kind of roller coaster. Ditka comes closest, as his idiocy got him driven out of Chicago. If that guy had a little more common sense, they would have anointed him king instead...

[Dr.O]

From my history of rebuilding franchises on madden I should make the list or atleast get an honorable mention

[Kmart128]

On 5/26/2018 at 5:43 AM, OleXmad said:

The bills lucked into the playoffs and he benched his starting QB for a rookie QB who threw 5 INTs in a single half, hardly a top 10 coach.

1. Bill Bellicheck

2. Doug Pederson

3. John Harbaugh (I'm a ravens fan he shouldn't be this high but ehhh)

4. Mike Zimmer

5. Mike Tomlin

6. Sean McVay (1 year wonder but damn that 1 year is amazing) 

7. Sean Payton (would be higher but Brees+terrible defenses drag him down)

8. Pete Carroll (Should be higher but the hawks have regressed so eh)

9.  Ron Rivera 

10. Andy Reid.

As a Bills fan I don't agree that McDermott should be in top 10. Maybe top 15. But to early to call him top 10. He did a terrific job and was probably a top 5 HC last year but he needs to build upon it. However the Bills didn't luck into the playoffs. To be honest bad luck is what had us on the bubble to begin with. Like the Panthers game for example. And it wasn't really lucky in week 17.  The Bengals lead a majority of the game. The Ravens were lucky to even be leading that late in the game considering the Bengals controlled a majority of it.

[Xmad]

14 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

As a Bills fan I don't agree that McDermott should be in top 10. Maybe top 15. But to early to call him top 10. He did a terrific job and was probably a top 5 HC last year but he needs to build upon it. However the Bills didn't luck into the playoffs. To be honest bad luck is what had us on the bubble to begin with. Like the Panthers game for example. And it wasn't really lucky in week 17.  The Bengals lead a majority of the game. The Ravens were lucky to even be leading that late in the game considering the Bengals controlled a majority of it.

You still needed luck to make the playoffs, if the ravens won you didn't make the playoffs and you needed a certain outcome, you got that outcome. That's luck.