drd23 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 4 hours ago, LeeEvans said: Seriously. Watch it. Its heartbreaking. The last two weeks worth of those just seems like they just dont even care or think they have to justify what they're writing. Watching them it's pretty clear that they've come up with things they want to happen because "it makes good tv" without thinking about whether it makes sense or fits within the internal logic of the universe the show is set in. I've never read the books and didn't really subscribe to the "the writing has been terrible since the show surpassed the books" theory, but these last two episodes (and the behind the scenes bit at the end of them) has probably proven that to actually be the case. Their mindset about finding things that make good tv worked early on because they didn't need to worry about what they did fitting in the universe because the books had done it for them. Now that there's nothing holding them to logic, they are failing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Holy plotholes, Been saying two episodes now and everyone I know who watches this show agrees that Jon and Dany can easily be married and the conflict is completely avoided, they also love each other anyways. Targaryians are meant to marry each other. Also, you’re not gonna fall out of love with someone cause you found out that’s your distant aunt (may sound gross). I had no problem with Episode 3 what so ever even though some hated it. I defended it. But they are making drama out of thin air for the final season. They would easily marry and it’s bad writing to make a dramatic ending. They’re biologically related and Tyrion and Varys specifically said the North is not okay with relatives marrying each other. Esp not their King. Apparently some fans of this show not only accept such a marriage but get upset when that doesn’t happen. Gross. And that’s not a plot hole. Edited May 6, 2019 by thrILL! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, thrILL! said: They’re biologically related and Tyrion and Varys specifically said the North is not okay with relatives marrying each other. Esp not their King. Apparently some fans of this show not only accept such a marriage but get upset when that doesn’t happen. Gross. That sounds like a really weak reason that the writers came up with this season. As for your last sentence, incest is a rampant thing in Game of Thrones and the Targaryians have married each other for centuries. Jon and Dany are also clearly madly in love. Them not even suggesting once to each other to marry is a giant plothole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 minute ago, thrILL! said: They’re biologically related and Tyrion and Varys specifically said the North is not okay with relatives marrying each other. Esp not their King. Apparently some fans of this show not only accept such a marriage but get upset when that doesn’t happen. Gross. Varys tries to say that Dany would rule instead of Jon and Tyrion suggested that he could temper her worst tendencies in which Varys would reply that Dany would rule him too. Varys or the writers want to paint the picture that she would be too dangerous even with Jon around to make it good writing. Except anyone who has watched the show knows Jon would not just stand around and wait for that to happen even if he loves her. After what he did with Ygritte he would take the fight to her even if in the end he couldn't bring himself to kill her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, BayRaider said: That sounds like a really weak reason that the writers came up with this season. As for your last sentence, incest is a rampant thing in Game of Thrones and the Targaryians have married each other for centuries. Jon and Dany are also clearly madly in love. Them not even suggesting once to each other to marry is a giant plothole. That’s not a plot hole. A plot hole would be Dany going away and Misande was now Jon’s girlfriend. Instead it’s just something you wanted discussed. I don’t know why they wrote around it either but it’s not a plot hole. Those 2 aren’t very good at talking. And still... gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, Calvert28 said: Varys tries to say that Dany would rule instead of Jon and Tyrion suggested that he could temper her worst tendencies in which Varys would reply that Dany would rule him too. Varys or the writers want to paint the picture that she would be too dangerous even with Jon around to make it good writing. Except anyone who has watched the show knows Jon would not just stand around and wait for that to happen even if he loves her. After what he did with Ygritte he would take the fight to her even if in the end he couldn't bring himself to kill her. Exactly. It’s really bad writing and basically stating things that aren’t true to “tie up” the marriage plothole. Jon would certainly keep Danny in check or handle business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 minute ago, thrILL! said: That’s not a plot hole. A plot hole would be Dany going away and Misande was now Jon’s girlfriend. Instead it’s just something you wanted discussed. I don’t know why they wrote around it either but it’s not a plot hole. Those 2 aren’t very good at talking. And still... gross. Oh cmon. If you lived in Westeros and were related to her you would stick her with the pointy end too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, Calvert28 said: Oh cmon. If you lived in Westeros and were related to her you would stick her with the pointy end too. Uh no. Never was into blondes. Or aunts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, thrILL! said: That’s not a plot hole. A plot hole would be Dany going away and Misande was now Jon’s girlfriend. Instead it’s just something you wanted discussed. I don’t know why they wrote around it either but it’s not a plot hole. Those 2 aren’t very good at talking. And still... gross. It can be considered a plot hole if you feel that's it's happening (or in this case, not happening) for no logical reason. There is no logical reason that Varys / Tyrion wouldn't have brought this up to Dany and Jon at some point. Or someone wouldn't have brought this up to them at some point, particularly given the friction in the North. Marriages are huge deals in this narrative - they create alliances, mend fences between houses, help cure wounds. The North would have one of their own on the iron throne - not only that, but they would have the male side of the throne, which as Varys advised, can kind of be a big deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, drd23 said: Watching them it's pretty clear that they've come up with things they want to happen because "it makes good tv" without thinking about whether it makes sense or fits within the internal logic of the universe the show is set in. I've never read the books and didn't really subscribe to the "the writing has been terrible since the show surpassed the books" theory, but these last two episodes (and the behind the scenes bit at the end of them) has probably proven that to actually be the case. Their mindset about finding things that make good tv worked early on because they didn't need to worry about what they did fitting in the universe because the books had done it for them. Now that there's nothing holding them to logic, they are failing You would think with 4 seasons they would have these fleshed out better to make sense, considering they've had years to work on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Exactly. It’s really bad writing and basically stating things that aren’t true to “tie up” the marriage plothole. Jon would certainly keep Danny in check or handle business. He’s talking about a different aspect of their relationship. That didn’t negate what I was saying. Besides, Dany told Jon she loves him. That doesn’t seem to be leading her decision-making. She clearly seems jealous of his claim. If she was indeed in love with him, shouldn’t she want to rule by his side as his queen? That’s not how she’s taking all of this. And poor Jon only wants to do the right thing. He’s gonna be manipulated by Dark Phoenix into going to war with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 minute ago, thrILL! said: Uh no. Never was into blondes. Or aunts. She has more silver hair then blonde so you're good there. As for the 2nd thing, again this is Westeros and they don't have the same laws and more then likely if you did live there you wouldn't think theres a problem with it if it's Targaryans doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Also...how do we feel about knowing Varys' death is going to come at the hands of what will likely be in an attempted coup? I thought Varys was excellent in this episode, but at the same time, I feel kind of sad knowing that this will never work and will certainly result in his death. While his character has morphed into some of this "voice of the people" role that he most certainly isn't in the books, I do kind of like it, and if Dany really does go fire and flame King's landing, I certainly think that it's in his character to be wary of this new monarch. But knowing he's going to die because of it makes me kind of sad lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, thrILL! said: He’s talking about a different aspect of their relationship. That didn’t negate what I was saying. Besides, Dany told Jon she loves him. That doesn’t seem to be leading her decision-making. She clearly seems jealous of his claim. If she was indeed in love with him, shouldn’t she want to rule by his side as his queen? That’s not how she’s taking all of this. And poor Jon only wants to do the right thing. He’s gonna be manipulated by Dark Phoenix into going to war with her. I agree with your last two sentences at least. They are trying to make Sansa into some kind of genius. She’s not. More bad writing. This season has had so many 180’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 minute ago, thrILL! said: He’s talking about a different aspect of their relationship. That didn’t negate what I was saying. Besides, Dany told Jon she loves him. That doesn’t seem to be leading her decision-making. She clearly seems jealous of his claim. If she was indeed in love with him, shouldn’t she want to rule by his side as his queen? That’s not how she’s taking all of this. And poor Jon only wants to do the right thing. He’s gonna be manipulated by Dark Phoenix into going to war with her. I think they are setting it up where Dany plays right into Cersei's hands and Jon whinds up going to save them all because that's just who he is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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