Dcash4 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, warfelg said: They don’t really get to because what ever team gets to show Lamar “he was right” does so with the assumed risk of losing 2 1sts. In other words: the current asking price for top half starting QBs? You can actually have Lamar Jackson for less than the price of Stafford and Wilson, both who immediately signed top of the league deals to boot. I gotta tell ya man, people ain’t show up to the party because of the trade cost. And that’s exactly the story I bet the ravens hope to be able to spin in negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: In other words: the current asking price for top half starting QBs? You can actually have Lamar Jackson for less than the price of Stafford and Wilson, both who immediately signed top of the league deals to boot. I gotta tell ya man, people ain’t show up to the party because of the trade cost. And that’s exactly the story I bet the ravens hope to be able to spin in negotiations. Hold on to your seat then: Both we’re over pays and both are better than LJ. It’s the story they hope to spin but it’s not the story that will work. Non-exclusive scared teams because the Ravens are basically asking them to build a contract for them. If I were another team why would I do that and have to wait to hear with my cap and lose out on other signings at the same time? And give up more picks than the guy is worth (there’s your hot take. LJ is outside the top 10). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Matt makes the simple case as to why an agent is so important. They can do all that value gauging ahead of time. Because Lamar represents himself with his mom doing all the talking, they don’t have the in roads and connections to figure that out. If he had an agent at the combine last week, they could have known ahead of time that the non-exclusive tag would have teams out, or they could have found out a fully guaranteed contract isn’t on the table, or had an idea of what those parameters are for a contract. I honestly keep bouncing back and forth on if the NEFT was worth it. Because on one hand it locked in the trade price, meaning BMore likely had no intention of ever trading him, and this is their way of allowing him to find out his demands are unreasonable. But on the other hand, it always only takes one team, and if Lamar truly wants to be on the other team and BMore matches, they screwed him and end up with a disgruntled player on a potentially bloated contract. Or worse, the other teams do want to do something with him but their trade price isn’t 2 1sts, so they won’t even bother to negotiate with him hoping he just hits the open market next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 18 hours ago, Dcash4 said: Outside of that deal might ultimately be unreasonable for you too. Finding a price that is going to drain your own cap while spending the 2 firsts is a tall task. You would have to have a hard cap hit in year 1 that the Ravens cant/wont match. It's basically slamming your own roster building shut for a year to get Lamar and then limiting everything you can do thereafter -- and doing it without 2 firsts. Desperate teams. I think there are less of them then you think. The media makes them desperate. The Jets MIGHT be desperate but they should not be. If a team like the Falcons wanted to they could make a contact that fits within their very large cap space but crews up the Raven's cap space. Again, I do not think the NFL owners want to go down that road and so they will not. Andrew Luck may have been able to pull that off if he wanted to but not LJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, jebrick said: Desperate teams. I think there are less of them then you think. The media makes them desperate. The Jets MIGHT be desperate but they should not be. If a team like the Falcons wanted to they could make a contact that fits within their very large cap space but crews up the Raven's cap space. Again, I do not think the NFL owners want to go down that road and so they will not. Andrew Luck may have been able to pull that off if he wanted to but not LJ. Here’s a good question with ATL - they need a lot but is it more worth it to trade for LJ and kill their cap OR trade for the #1 pick and spend their cap on free agents the next two years? If I were ATL and I love Stroud, I give up 8, 44, 2024 1st, 2025 3rd (that’s the points that add up) to go get him. You got $67mil in space that you can go get a speedy WR in this thin class, sign CJGJ, Bradberry, a DL and still have money to roll over to next year. On top of that you still have your 3rd and 4th in a deep edge rusher and CB class. Hell. I think I just talked myself into what ATL should do this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, warfelg said: Fools and their money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, jebrick said: Fools and their money It will be interesting to see the compensation. I saw the idea floated of just dust off the terms from Favre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) but looking at AR contract plus what they will give up in trade plus AR could decide to retire at any point and it is stupid. AR could play for the Jets for one year, retire after the 2024 draft and the Jets have a $60+M dead money cap hit Edited March 9, 2023 by jebrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, jebrick said: but looking at AR contract plus what they will give up in trade plus AR could decide to retire at any point and it is stupid. AR could play for the Jets for one year, retire after the 2024 draft and the Jets have a $60+M dead money cap hit Gut feeling. Aaron didn’t actually want to retire. If your the Jets you aren’t doing this without assurances he will play the length of the contract. I think he used the thought of retirement to kinda push GB to make the move. “Either get something for me now or lose me in a month for nothing” is quite the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, warfelg said: Matt makes the simple case as to why an agent is so important. They can do all that value gauging ahead of time. Because Lamar represents himself with his mom doing all the talking, they don’t have the in roads and connections to figure that out. If he had an agent at the combine last week, they could have known ahead of time that the non-exclusive tag would have teams out, or they could have found out a fully guaranteed contract isn’t on the table, or had an idea of what those parameters are for a contract. I honestly keep bouncing back and forth on if the NEFT was worth it. Because on one hand it locked in the trade price, meaning BMore likely had no intention of ever trading him, and this is their way of allowing him to find out his demands are unreasonable. But on the other hand, it always only takes one team, and if Lamar truly wants to be on the other team and BMore matches, they screwed him and end up with a disgruntled player on a potentially bloated contract. Or worse, the other teams do want to do something with him but their trade price isn’t 2 1sts, so they won’t even bother to negotiate with him hoping he just hits the open market next year. That is what I was saying yesterday -- they are not looking to trade him, they are looking for this negotiation to come to a close. Either by Lamar finally agreeing to a contract that they match or by them having all the negotiating power to say "We are the ones that value you". If someone offers something they can't match, they get two first round picks. The worst case scenario here is that Lamar doesn't get an offer and stays stubborn on full guarantee or nothing -- but the Ravens just do this again next year on the exclusive and work out a trade to the highest bidder next year. The Ravens come out of this with Picks, Power, or the Player (signed to an extension, which is what they want). I do agree that Lamar needed an agent for this. If you want a normal contract and save that 3%, fine. You might get screwed outta small things (bonus, workout threshold, trade clause, etc), but you will get your money. But if you are trying to pull of a heist and get something no one other than a desperate owner has shown interest in? You might want a little better counsel than the NFLPA who only wants you to get that contract. 1 hour ago, warfelg said: If I were ATL and I love Stroud, I give up 8, 44, 2024 1st, 2025 3rd (that’s the points that add up) to go get him. You got $67mil in space that you can go get a speedy WR in this thin class, sign CJGJ, Bradberry, a DL and still have money to roll over to next year. On top of that you still have your 3rd and 4th in a deep edge rusher and CB class. I do think a rookie QB is what kept the Falcons out of Lamar, but IMO it's Richardson, not Stroud. Richardson in a Arthur Smith offense? Getting a dedicated screen in the basement each week for me. Edited March 9, 2023 by Dcash4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 And there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 minute ago, warfelg said: And there it is. Bears got 9, 61, 2024 1st, 2025 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, warfelg said: Bears got 9, 61, 2024 1st, 2025 2nd. And they got DJ Moore. Bears gonna draft the best LT on the board at 9, likely PJJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, warfelg said: And they got DJ Moore. Bears gonna draft the best LT on the board at 9, likely PJJ. That’s my guess…Moore/Mooney/Claypool isn’t a terrible wr core…they Could even throw a curveball and go Bijan. Edited March 10, 2023 by AFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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