skibrett15 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 First, a look at how Diggs stresses you vertically. I'm not gonna show the TD, everyone has seen that dozens of times, and yes, Brice needs to help. Diggs 18 yard gain. This is the most impressive route/play from Diggs, and the least impressive coverage of him by GB. Tramon gives him so much cushion because he cannot hang with Diggs' long speed. Tramon is never within 5 yards of Diggs, and he never touches him. Diggs 12 yards, out route. Again, Tramon is primary in coverage, and again he gives so much cushion that this isn't even close. Tramon also very tentative after the catch. Diggs 5 yard out. Tramon closes and tackles on a slightly late ball. He doesn't retreat like he does on these other plays. King vs Diggs, press technique with some safety help. Incomplete, perfectly played. The next set of plays are representative of how the Vikings used Diggs to stress our coverage horizontally. Diggs 1 yard gain, one of the first plays from scrimmage. JA chases it down. This play looks like it's setting up for a double pass given that Diggs runs behind Cousins... Diggs 3 yard TD. The motion just destroys tramon, and the change in speed by Diggs is impressive. If HHCD and Tramon are completely in sync here they can possibly pass off the coverage inside/out here. Diggs 1 yard loss. JA chases him down after they run PA from jet sweep, which they handed off to Diggs earlier in the game. Well played Diggs 6 yard screen on final drive. 3rd and 3. Tramon has a chance to wrap up, LBs have a chance to rally to ball if Tramon can slow him a bit more. Neither happens, so 1st down and drive continues. Tramon's excessive cushion here is just a formational/mathcup win for Minnesota. And now, on the most important play of the game, Tramon has seen the vertical threat, he's seen the horizontal threat, and so they go with the double move. In the tight RZ here in a 2 pt conversion situation, Tramon cheats to the inside (watch the 2 steps late) even though he has help here from the LB and HHCD on the slant... Horrible technique. If you're gonna play it like that, you gotta tackle the receiver on the double move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I think we're all in agreement that Tramon's wheels feel off in about 2013 and he's got no business lining up against a good #1 receiver. He's playing the cagey old man game of it being better to get beat short than to get beat long. He needs help over his head if you want him to be closing down on those. He should be phased out for Josh Jackson over the course of the season. Just in the clips you can see how the younger legs challenge Diggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I just don't get why Tramon isn't playing safety. If that doesn't become a change for the playoffs, and if we don't add a pass rusher by the trade deadline, I'll be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I think we're all in agreement that Tramon's wheels feel off in about 2013 and he's got no business lining up against a good #1 receiver. He's playing the cagey old man game of it being better to get beat short than to get beat long. He needs help over his head if you want him to be closing down on those. He should be phased out for Josh Jackson over the course of the season. Just in the clips you can see how the younger legs challenge Diggs. I have to agree. He looked terrible the last three seasons he was with us last time. Very soft though he was hurt and Dom ran way too much zone a lot of the time. Tramon is now healthy and in a different defensive scheme yet his approach hasn't changed one bit. We might want to think about drafting another CB to replace him and/or House this coming offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I'm wanting to love Pettine, but putting Tramon on a guy like Diggs was just a dumb idea from the beginning. A complete mismatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Pretty obvious losing King changed absolutely everything about how we played this game. If we learned what we needed to defensively about how House and Williams compare to Alexander and Jackson in a game we managed a tie, that's pretty good. Tramon should be phased to safety. House is just emergency depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: Pretty obvious losing King changed absolutely everything about how we played this game. If we learned what we needed to defensively about how House and Williams compare to Alexander and Jackson in a game we managed a tie, that's pretty good. Tramon should be phased to safety. House is just emergency depth. Not sure Tramon is a good enough tackler to really play safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Not sure Tramon is a good enough tackler to really play safety. I'm talking that turbo package. Brice and Jones need to be covering the flat, roaming the LOS and playing the ball in front of them, King, Alexander and Jackson are your corners and HHCD and Tramon play the deep halves. In base Tramon needs to stay a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Great post, @skibrett15. Certainly discouraging, though Diggs is going to make a lot of guys look old and slow. The Rams game (Oct 28) is our next big test against an elite group of wideouts (although the Lions aren't bad either). Maybe the secondary looks different by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Joe said: We might want to think about drafting another CB to replace him and/or House this coming offseason. Not with a first or second we dont...... Please dont. Please. Can we please draft something OTHER than a CB with our first or second? Will we? Ever again? Btw - with King being injured and all - anybody still hot to trot to have Alexander returning punts? Hands? Hands? Do I see any hands in the air........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Btw - is Pipkins on anybody's roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: I'm talking that turbo package. Brice and Jones need to be covering the flat, roaming the LOS and playing the ball in front of them, King, Alexander and Jackson are your corners and HHCD and Tramon play the deep halves. In base Tramon needs to stay a CB. If I'm in a situation where I need 7 DBs in the game, I'm not feeling the love for 4 Safeties and 3 CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: If I'm in a situation where I need 7 DBs in the game, I'm not feeling the love for 4 Safeties and 3 CBs. I don't know how you could argue the 7 I listed aren't our best 7 DBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I don't know how you could argue the 7 I listed aren't our best 7 DBs. I think there's an argument to be made for House over Jones at the moment, but that's not even really what I'm saying. If we're doing a DB flood, I'd probably prefer to have Tramon at CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmy50 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 If they feel Williams would bring more to this team at safety than he would at CB I guess I'd be willing to listen. I disagree if one thinks Williams can't run well enough to play CB though. Williams is a extremely naturally athletic guy. Those guys that get out of bed as athletes often age well. I'm not saying Williams can run like he could ten year's ago. But he can sure as hell still run well enough to bring value at CB. I mean, Diggs is a very explosive athlete that will stress many a set of leg's. There is a reason why he's a 70 million dollar WR! They can't all be THAT GUY though in a capped league. It's more about what they bring considering contract in hand and I for one have zero issue with what Williams is at CB with his paper in hand. House is a different story. House is the one that lost his legs. If House doesn't get his hands on ya he's in trouble these day's. Guys that are stiff/straight line like House often struggle mightily after the long speed starts to go. Hell, most all of the like need to be damn fast to even get a look in this league. I'd say better than half still fail. Bama practice squad kid is a great example of what I'm talking about. Kid is lightning in a straight line but his stiff hip/ankles kill his upside. He might bring value for a few year's while he can still really fly. But that cliff will be a steep one when the legs start to go. House has had a couple minor lower half injuries that have killed his game/value. He just has no room for error at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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