What happened to the Saints defense?

[MookieMonstah]

gsu right now

[GSUeagles14]

40 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Weird criteria for someone that has claimed (In this thread even- GSUeagles14 "im not a huge believer in pff") they don't think highly of PFF (Unless it fits their strange narrative). Thankfully we've gone over this ad nauseam. Lattimore has done well since his rough week 1 being able to contain Landry, Julio Jones, Beckham. 

ive already covered this, in this thread in fact, pff is a useful baseline when you cant see what a player is doing every play (ie corner/safety). some if their rankings are still awful and indisagree with some of their process but i cant really argue with things i cant see. furthermore, youve endorsed them numerous times so you should have no problem with it being used.

 

as far as his poor play only being week 1, yourr arguing against basic math. unless youre saying his pff score was around a 5 week 1 (it wasnt, i believe it was somewhere in the 50s), then math says youre wrong. not me saying youre wrong, math, are you arguing with basic math? not rehashing the same tired arguments with odell, julio, we uave pff thats unbiased to tell the story.

[tyler735]

10 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

ive already covered this, in this thread in fact, pff is a useful baseline when you cant see what a player is doing every play (ie corner/safety).

Or in other words it's useful when it fits my narrative.. 

10 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

 

some if their rankings are still awful and indisagree with some of their process but i cant really argue with things i cant see. furthermore, youve endorsed them numerous times so you should have no problem with it being used.

Either their rankings are flawed or they aren't. I've cited them, but I also include other data to back my opinions.

10 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

 

as far as his poor play only being week 1, yourr arguing against basic math. unless youre saying his pff score was around a 5 week 1 (it wasnt, i believe it was somewhere in the 50s), then math says youre wrong. not me saying youre wrong, math, are you arguing with basic math? not rehashing the same tired arguments with odell, julio, we uave pff thats unbiased to tell the story.

Don't care about his PFF score. That is your sole argument. However what I didn't see in week 2, week 3, or week 4 is much of Landry, Julio Jones, and Beckham...Thankfully I know who spent the majority of the time covering each of those WR's in each of those games...I'll give you a hint...It was last year defensive rookie of the year.

[GSUeagles14]

9 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Or in other words it's useful when it fits my narrative.. 

Either their rankings are flawed or they aren't. I've cited them, but I also include other data to back my opinions.

Don't care about his PFF score. That is your sole argument. However what I didn't see in week 2, week 3, or week 4 is much of Landry, Julio Jones, and Beckham...Thankfully I know who spent the majority of the time covering each of those WR's in each of those games...I'll give you a hint...It was last year defensive rookie of the year.

1.  of course you dont care, youve endorsed and cited pff multiple times but now it doesnt matter cause it says lattimore hasnt played great.

 

2. logically, where do you disgaree that while acknowledging pff isnt perfect, its the best we have available to us for guys you cant see on screen. look forward to this answer

 

3. your biased and want to ignore all context on lattimores performance, im biased and want to add thar context. pff is supposedly unbiased and it says what?

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

1.  of course you dont care, youve endorsed and cited pff multiple times but now it doesnt matter cause it says lattimore hasnt played great.

I've also used it, but I also add substance besides PFF, which it seems we both can acknowledge is a bit inconsistent, which if it is, why would I completely trust them to grade "people you can't see on the screen at all times". Since we are using PFF now though how about that All Pro talent Takkarist Mckinley- 57.9 PFF Grade. Thankfully the Saints have Marcus Davenport who has a 76.0 PFF grade.

 

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2. logically, where do you disgaree that while acknowledging pff isnt perfect, its the best we have available to us for guys you cant see on screen. look forward to this answer

You do realize there are ways to watch CB's right...right? However better than a PFF score would be stats of this nature listed in the article (QB Rating against, catch rate, interception rate, yards against)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916398/article/nfls-top-10-cornerbacks-in-2017-aj-bouye-rules-the-roost

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3. your biased and want to ignore all context on lattimores performance, im biased and want to add thar context. pff is supposedly unbiased and it says what?

I couldn't agree more with the bold statement lol. I've admitted several times Lattimore was piss poor in week 1, hell Lattimore himself has even admitted it. Since then, he has done great for us.  

[GSUeagles14]

34 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I've also used it, but I also add substance besides PFF, which it seems we both can acknowledge is a bit inconsistent, which if it is, why would I completely trust them to grade "people you can't see on the screen at all times". Since we are using PFF now though how about that All Pro talent Takkarist Mckinley- 57.9 PFF Grade. Thankfully the Saints have Marcus Davenport who has a 76.0 PFF grade.

 

You do realize there are ways to watch CB's right...right? However better than a PFF score would be stats of this nature listed in the article (QB Rating against, catch rate, interception rate, yards against)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916398/article/nfls-top-10-cornerbacks-in-2017-aj-bouye-rules-the-roost

I couldn't agree more with the bold statement lol. I've admitted several times Lattimore was piss poor in week 1, hell Lattimore himself has even admitted it. Since then, he has done great for us.  

i agree with takks score, hes been really bad against the run and sells out to much for his pass rush. hes has 5 sacks which is great but he needs to get back to playing the run, and being healthy since hes been nicked up the last few weeks.

 

 

while catch rate and yards allowed is very relevant, it doesnt tell the whole story. howwver, if you have 2018 stats id love to look at them...im not paying for any service nor do i have the time to look at every game. i didnt really see any disgarre in there either.

 

yes, were both biased... however an unbiased service says lattimore continues to be average to poor. this past week 1,again really simole math says its not just week 1. but by all means continue to use pff and onjy ignore it in regards to lattimore. 

 

 

[ET80]

Can we not make it about posters, please?

Tks.

[tyler735]

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

i agree with takks score, hes been really bad against the run and sells out to much for his pass rush. hes has 5 sacks which is great but he needs to get back to playing the run, and being healthy since hes been nicked up the last few weeks.

Yeah I don't doubt he's been really bad against the run.

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

 

while catch rate and yards allowed is very relevant, it doesnt tell the whole story. howwver, if you have 2018 stats id love to look at them...im not paying for any service nor do i have the time to look at every game. i didnt really see any disgarre in there either.

So that means you're coming into this argument blind in regards to Lattimore, and just spouting a number from PFF without really any other input in regards to how Lattimore has actually played since his rough week 1.

 

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

yes, were both biased... however an unbiased service says lattimore continues to be average to poor. this past week 1,again really simole math says its not just week 1. but by all means continue to use pff and onjy ignore it in regards to lattimore. 

 

 

You do realize that according to PFF's metrics he has been Above Average with the inclusion of week 1, and is likely rated as good/high quality in the weeks since then. Regardless it still just isn't all that valuable as I have shown there are other ways to gauge a CB.

[GSUeagles14]

 

 

11 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Yeah I don't doubt he's been really bad against the run.

So that means you're coming into this argument blind in regards to Lattimore, and just spouting a number from PFF without really any other input in regards to how Lattimore has actually played since his rough week 1.

 

You do realize that according to PFF's metrics he has been Above Average with the inclusion of week 1, and is likely rated as good/high quality in the weeks since then. Regardless it still just isn't all that valuable as I have shown there are other ways to gauge a CB.

what do you mean how hes played, theyre judging eah play? and others stats are useduk but still doesnt tell the whole story, football is so dependent on other players no one stat will be perfect. looking at objs performance, lattimore let up a 66% catch rate and a qbr around 90... but he should have had a much better day with better play from eli. not even rehashing that argument as its almost a concensus that eli has been bad.

 

going back to lattimore pff rating, hes been better since week one but not good overall. ranked the 53rd best corner and only moving up marginally weekly.

[tyler735]

20 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

 

 

what do you mean how hes played, theyre judging eah play? and others stats are useduk but still doesnt tell the whole story, football is so dependent on other players no one stat will be perfect. looking at objs performance, lattimore let up a 66% catch rate and a qbr around 90... but he should have had a much better day with better play from eli. not even rehashing that argument as its almost a concensus that eli has been bad.

So you are going to use "ifs" and "buts" for something that didn't happen to attempt to put Lattimore down...Nice lol

 

[GSUeagles14]

11 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

So you are going to use "ifs" and "buts" for something that didn't happen to attempt to put Lattimore down...Nice lol

 

ok guy... youre now basically contending football isnt a sport that players are extremy dependent on teammates. good argument, real solid.

[tyler735]

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

ok guy... youre now basically contending football isnt a sport that players are extremy dependent on teammates. good argument, real solid.

First off I didn't say football isn't a team game. However by this crap logic of "ifs" and "butts" if Lattimore didn't trip over himself week 1 he doesn't give up the long TD to Evans making this whole flawed Lattimore isn't playing well argument never exist in the first place. 

If Manning throws a couple close to Beckham maybe he gets a couple more catches, or maybe Lattimore comes down with an interception on them we can play "what if" all day but at then end of the that is all it is.."what if" lol

[GSUeagles14]

25 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

First off I didn't say football isn't a team game. However by this crap logic of "ifs" and "butts" if Lattimore didn't trip over himself week 1 he doesn't give up the long TD to Evans making this whole flawed Lattimore isn't playing well argument never exist in the first place. 

If Manning throws a couple close to Beckham maybe he gets a couple more catches, or maybe Lattimore comes down with an interception on them we can play "what if" all day but at then end of the that is all it is.."what if" lol

lattimore controls what he does, obj or  whoever cant control there qb or oline. if a wr is wide open but doesnt get thrown the ball or if its an overthrow, thats not automatically a good play by the corner. hence why catch  rate and yards allowed are useful stats but dont tell the entire story.

[tyler735]

5 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

lattimore controls what he does, obj or  whoever cant control there qb or oline. if a wr is wide open but doesnt get thrown the ball or if its an overthrow, thats not automatically a good play by the corner. hence why catch  rate and yards allowed are useful stats but dont tell the entire story.

And Lattimore doesn't control if there are miscommunications/blown assignments with teammates, a lack of pass rush, etc. Again if you open the "what if" can of worms it is quite the rabbit hole to venture down, and gets us nowhere at the end of the day as this is essentially arguing things that didn't happen.

[SSK]

Without interfering in the Lattimore debate, the main reason the Saints defense sucks is SEAN PAYTON!

Game plan against a defense = GREAT

build a formidable defense for his team = WORSE THAN ALL 32 NFL HC's AND 112 NCAAF HC'S.